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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
polex's Avatar
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Legend TT carburetor tune-up
Hello,
I bought a 2000 Legend TT with 300 miles on it.
The motorcycle is like new but has some problem because was stopped for a long time: the chain is little bit rusty and the gas tank has some rust inside.
The engine has some hesitation below 3000 RPM and the idle is unstable.
The gas mileage is also low: 30 MPG.
The previous owner told me that he has cleaned the carburetors, and I suppose that the problem at low RPM depend on wrong carburetors reassembly.
I checked the carburetors balance and it is OK.
The gas tank filter was not clogged.
I checked the spark plugs.
The spark plug on the left side and the spark plug in the middle have a good brown color.
The spark plug on the right side is black, then I turn the corresponding pilot air screw in order to reduce gasoline in the mixture.
I rode for 100 miles but the spark plug is still black.
I want to overhaul the carburetors but I need some information before.
What is the main jet size?
What is the pilot jet size?
What is the needle position?

Do you know any website providing technical information about Triumph 885cc engine ?

Do you know some shop/website who sell the saddlebag brackets at reasonable price?

Thank you.

I am happy to find a so interesting forum.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
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OEM mains = 98
OEM pilots = 38 @ ~2.5 turns.

Be sure and check the proven setups, and searches will bring up even more on this subject. I had to remove the old jets, just to make sure I got the right ones when I upgraded. Sound like the carbs could use a once over anyhow to check the floats, etc. You'll find plenty of help here...

Poke
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
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....and the OEM needles don't have any "positions"...If you want to shim, use 3mm washers.

Poke
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Hesitation under 3k and rough idle is a sure sign of the pilot jets being clogged and needing cleaning.

If one plug is black, the float height may be out on that carb.

With these problems, I am not sure how you would get a good balance reading on the carbs and by adjusting the pilot on one carb, the balance is now out anyway.

As for needles, you can shim them or as many have done, install Thruxton needles.

FYI I have a set of Thruxton needles listed in the classified
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
polex's Avatar
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Unbelievable fuel float level
I checked again the plug on the right side and is still black.
I turned again the air pilot, now should be near 3/4 turn but I've not checked the plug color yet, but the idle seems to be more stable.
Originally Posted by ShikePoke View Post
OEM mains = 98
OEM pilots = 38 @ ~2.5 turns.
I found this website:
http://www.thetreptows.com/Triumph/ClassicTuning10.doc
The air pilot screw OEM tune up seems to be 3/4 turn.

Originally Posted by ShikePoke View Post
Be sure and check the proven setups, and searches will bring up even more on this subject. I had to remove the old jets, just to make sure I got the right ones when I upgraded.
Where can I buy the jets ?

Originally Posted by ShikePoke View Post
Sound like the carbs could use a once over anyhow to check the floats, etc. You'll find plenty of help here...
I measured the bowl fuel float level by following the procedure indicated in Service Manual.
This way for measuring can be followed without disassemble the carburetor.
The gasoline level is 3-5 mm. below Joint face... The specification is 1.5 mm. above joint face.
I noticed that in "proven setups" the bowl fuel float level is measured in different way.
Is the 17.5 mm the OEM height ?

Last edited by polex : 4 Weeks Ago at 10:13 PM.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
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"Where can I buy the jets ?"
http://www.sudco.com/
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Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Originally Posted by polex View Post
II measured the bowl fuel float level by following the procedure indicated in Service Manual.
This way for measuring can be followed without disassemble the carburetor. The gasoline level is 3-5 mm. below Joint face... The specification is 1.5 mm. above joint face. I noticed that in "proven setups" the bowl fuel float level is measured in different way.
Is the 17.5 mm the OEM height ?
The Service manual check is a go/nogo test and impossibly tedious to use as a means of setting the float heights.

Haynes gives a 14.5mm float height figure for both the Mikuni and Keihin carbs and the 17.5mm figure is from Factory Pro and for use with the FP needles.

Triumph gives no float height measurement but allows a pretty large variance in fuel depth with their 1.5mm +/- 1mm value, so the difference between Haynes and FP seems pretty reasonable overall.

So... I'd say that if you're using the stock needles and jetting then use the Haynes 14.5mm float height setting. You can always adjust it later toward the FP 17.5mm setting if the bike is too rich throughout the operating range. (Raising the float height lowers the fuel level in the bowls and leans out the mixture.)

To adjust the float height, remove the carbs from the bike and the float bowls from the carbs. Lay them on your workbench with the float pivots up and the bowl mating surfaces vertical. Gradually roatate them until the float height adjustment tabs just touch the float valve spring pins without compressing them. (There's a small spring-loaded pin in each of the float needle valves.)

Measure from the bowl mating surface to the highest point on the floats. You must be careful to keep your ruler square to the mating surface. Any tilt of the ruler will give you an erroneous setting.

If adjustment is requred, gently push out the float pivot pin with a paper clip or similar and bend the adjustment tab by pressing it against a hard obect. (I use the corner of a wooden block and finger pressure only.)

A tiny change in the bend of the adjustment tab will produce a large change in float height, so take it easy! DO NOT use pliers or screwdriver leverage to bend the tab. These things are delicate!

After bending the tab, replace the float in the carb, re-insert the pivot pin and check the measurement.

On the road you'll find out if your float adjustments are accurate when you hit the reserve on the fuel tank. If all three floats are set identically the engine will shut down like somebody flipped a switch. If the engine shuts down one cylinder at a time then the float heights are a bit off.

Leaving them a bit off is much less scary.

It's not a difficult process but it's exacting and delicate.

Jim
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Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Originally Posted by jimmyj900 View Post
The Service manual check is a go/nogo test and impossibly tedious to use as a means of setting the float heights.

Haynes gives a 14.5mm float height figure for both the Mikuni and Keihin carbs and the 17.5mm figure is from Factory Pro and for use with the FP needles.

Triumph gives no float height measurement but allows a pretty large variance in fuel depth with their 1.5mm +/- 1mm value, so the difference between Haynes and FP seems pretty reasonable overall.
I have not disassembled the carbs yet and I prefer to collect information before do it.
If 1.5mm above joint is equivalent at 14.5mm (OEM setting) THEN the 1.5mm below joint should be equivalent at 17.5 mm (FP setting).
Is it correct ?
The Service manual measurement gave me another info: the gas float level is below Factory Pro setting.

Originally Posted by jimmyj900 View Post
So... I'd say that if you're using the stock needles and jetting then use the Haynes 14.5mm float height setting. You can always adjust it later toward the FP 17.5mm setting if the bike is too rich throughout the operating range. (Raising the float height lowers the fuel level in the bowls and leans out the mixture.)
I have no idea about which kind of jet are installed, I have bought a pre-owned bike.
For sure, some modification was made, at least the the gas float level was modified.

Before disassembling the carbs, I need some criteria for recognizing the OEM parts.
As I understand, I can recognize the OEM needles because they have no notches for tuning.
Is it correct ?
The main jets should have 98 printed on them.
The pilot jets should have 38 printed on them.
Is it correct ?

Originally Posted by KD5QOQ View Post
"Where can I buy the jets ?"
http://www.sudco.com/
Does Sudco sell to private buyer ?

Your information are very useful for me.

Thank you.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Originally Posted by polex View Post
I have not disassembled the carbs yet and I prefer to collect information before do it.
If 1.5mm above joint is equivalent at 14.5mm (OEM setting) THEN the 1.5mm below joint should be equivalent at 17.5 mm (FP setting).
Is it correct ?
The Service manual measurement gave me another info: the gas float level is below Factory Pro setting.

I've never personally tested the Haynes or FP settings against the Triumph setting so I can't verify whether any of them match up.

The bike must be level side to side, so the Triumph check can't be done on the sidestand. That will introduce an error of 1mm or more in the measurement

Quote:
I have no idea about which kind of jet are installed, I have bought a pre-owned bike. For sure, some modification was made, at least the the gas float level was modified.

Before disassembling the carbs, I need some criteria for recognizing the OEM parts. As I understand, I can recognize the OEM needles because they have no notches for tuning.
Is it correct ?
The main jets should have 98 printed on them.
The pilot jets should have 38 printed on them.
Is it correct ?
The stock Keihin needle has no notches and is stamped N3RF near the head. The jets will have the sizes stamped (38 pilot/ 98 main) on them along with a stylized 'K'.

The Factory Pro needle has notches for adjustment and the FP jets are also stamped with the size, but the size isn't a 100% match for the Keihin jets.

When you remove the pilot jets, examine the bores with a good magnifier and a strong light. The bores should be clean and 'machined' looking. If the bores appear irregular or 'organic' they'll need cleaning.


IF you have an unmodified air filter box then the stock needles and jets are the best setup for the bike.

IF the filter box has been drilled or replaced with individual pod filters then you'll have to go by the 'proven setups' thread to get the bike running properly.

IF the Factory Pro needles and jets have been installed with the unmodified air filter box then you'll want #38 pilot jets and a main jet either #98 or #100.

On all of these setups, about 2-1/2 turns on the idle mixture screws is the consensus setting that everybody seems to be happy with.

You will need to balance the carburetors. That may account for uneven operation at an idle and small throttle settings and may also account for uneven color on the spark plugs.

Once you have clean pilot jets of the right size and the carbs have been balanced, a badly uneven idle or misfiring on one cylinder may be the result of a failed ignition coil. Go over the carbs first since a bike of that age with so few miles will have carb problems.

Quote:
Does Sudco sell to private buyer ?

Yes, and so does Carburetor Parts Warehouse www.carbparts.com

Jim
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Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Originally Posted by polex View Post
I have not disassembled the carbs yet and I prefer to collect information before do it.

Before disassembling the carbs, I need some criteria for recognizing the OEM parts.
As I understand, I can recognize the OEM needles because they have no notches for tuning.
Is it correct ?
The main jets should have 98 printed on them.
The pilot jets should have 38 printed on them.
Is it correct ?


Thank you.
You may be chasing a ghost...get the carbs off the bike and apart. The OEM needles will NOT have any notches. Only a carb kit will provide this for your bike.

You are correct on the main/pilot markings...98/38. It will be printed on the side. Jimmy900 knows his stuff, for sure, but untill you get your carbs apart, you do not know what you are working with. Your carbs may not need as much work as you think. Like I said, I had a main jet loose and in the bottom of the #3 carb(late in the troubleshooting), and wouldn't have known it if I did not take them apart. Get them suckers off!

Poke
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