Triumphrat

datapimp · 08-22-2007

Okay- first off, I know there is a lot of info out there, and I've been reading it, and honestly, my head is beginning to spin.

What I want to do:

(2003 TBS with TORs currently)

EPCO slipons:

This sounds like a very simple job. Easy install for sure. I've read a couple posts about it and some did it with no rejetting, and I think I read at least one person had to turn the screws a bit, but also added the K&N box.

Currently I have TORs. The guy I bought the bike from said the dealer rejetted when he bought the bike and had the TORs installed. From what I've read here, TORs should work with no rejetting (correct?) so I don't really know if the dealer did this or not (no service record for that).

I don't know if I'm off from stock setting on the screws or not. So I don't know what my baseline is if I need to go X number of turns based on otherpeoples experience.

Airbox-

I originally thought I'd like to go to pods, mostly to turn the auxiallry air chamber into a tool/first aid box. It sounds like the regular K&N airbox is a good mod performance wise, in conunction with the EPCOs. From some of the threads I've read it sounds like people have a lot of fussing once they go to pods, and that makes me hesitant. I do like learning how to work on my bike more, but I really want to make the mods, make any adjustments I need, and then be back on the road.

The prospect of tearing everything apart for trial and error on the jetting does not sound like fun for me really. . . I want the bike a little louder (Epcos) and if I get some more pep (filter+epcos) in the process, that'd be great. If I could do all that, and go to a filter option that allowed me to convert the chamber into a toolbox, that be ideal. . . but I'm not dieng to have that storage. . .I just think it'd be cool.

So.

My ideas were:

Do the epcos, and pod filters myself, try to tune the screws based on information here, and if it's still not right, take it to a mechanic and get the jetting sorted by a tuner with a dyno.

Am I asking for a world of hurt by considering pods? Are they that difficult to get tuned right?

Maybe I should just do the K&N box filter and the Epco's and go from there. And then take it to a dyno/tuner to get it fine tuned.

Any experiences similar to this upgrade path would be helpful. I'm handy enough to do the installation bits, but like I said, carb tuning sounds like a dark art I don't have the inclination to learn at present.

I know it is going to vary depending on the work needed and the specific shop, but anyone have a rough estimate on what I might expect $$-wise if I did the cans and filter myself and then took it to a shop and said "tune this better please!"

I appreciate any response on this. I know those of you in the know answer a lot of these questions repeatedly, and I've read a lot of comments on these mods piecemeal. . .this is the first set of mods I've ever considered doing to a bike and so I'm just not sure if my ideas/plans are sound. Thanks.

-nathan

crosstie · 08-23-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by datapimp

From what I've read here, TORs should work with no rejetting (correct?)

Correct.

Quote:

I don't know if I'm off from stock setting on the screws or not. So I don't know what my baseline is if I need to go X number of turns based on otherpeoples experience.

Not sure what you're asking here... but you can just turn the screws in, keeping track of each 1/2 turn, to get an idea of where you are now. Just be sure you write it down so you can put them back

Quote:

It sounds like the regular K&N airbox is a good mod performance wise, in conunction with the EPCOs.

Putting a K&N filter into the stock airbox will make NO difference to your performance - it's a higher quality filter, but it does not increase airflow in any way.

I have no experience with the EPCO pipes, but I doubt that a set of slip-on cans will make a huge difference over the TORs. My guess is, if you go w/ the K&N in the stock airbox and EPCOs you won't need to mess with the jetting at all. You may get some slight performance gain from the EPCOs, but it's not going to be a huge difference from where you are now.

Quote:

Am I asking for a world of hurt by considering pods? Are they that difficult to get tuned right?

Depends on who you ask

I didn't have too much trouble with mine. I put on 130 mains, 40 pilots, screws 2-1/2 turns, and I was golden when I had it dyno-checked. But your exhaust system also has a lot to do with it, there are a near-infinite number of combinations which makes it hard to present a hard-and-fast set-up that works for everyone. My *guess* is, if you put the pods on, w/ the EPCOs and the above jetting, you'll be right in the wheelhouse. But as always, YMMV. It also depends on what you're looking for - messing with the carbs will change things for sure. If you're looking for smooth mid-range, you may sacrifice some top-end. If you're looking for max HP, you may have some holes in the middle. Without getting into custom needles and serious expert tuning, you're going to have to make trade-offs.

Quote:

Maybe I should just do the K&N box filter and the Epco's and go from there. And then take it to a dyno/tuner to get it fine tuned.

Again, I wouldn't bother with a dyno if that's all you're doing. At least, I wouldn't bother having it 'tuned' my their mechanic with that set-up. If you want to pay $100 to have them put it on the dyno and see what kind of numbers you're making, cool - but IMO slip-ons and a K&N filter in the stock box aren't worth tuning for - you're not really changing that much.

Quote:

I know it is going to vary depending on the work needed and the specific shop, but anyone have a rough estimate on what I might expect $$-wise if I did the cans and filter myself and then took it to a shop and said "tune this better please!"

For a straight dyno run (no tuning by the mechanics) I've been paying around $100. I recently had it 'tuned', which meant 3 dyno runs, with the mechanic changing stuff around between each one (swapping jets, needles, he even did some tweaking w/ the pipes). It came out to about $400. Worth it IMO, the bike runs way better now. But I also put in new cams. I'd start w/ a dyno run - if the HP/Torque is better and there aren't any big holes and your air/gas mix is in the right place, you don't need to fork over a bunch of $$ to have it tuned. See where you're at before you start dropping (more) money.

HTH.

datapimp · 08-23-2007

Crosstie-

Thanks a lot for the comments, I appreciate it. I'm pretty new at approaching vehicles any more technically than just dropping them off at the dealer for their X,000 mile service or whatever, so it helps to have someone sanity check what I've picked up, and what I think I've picked up from reading the archives here.

Quote:

I didn't have too much trouble with mine. I put on 130 mains, 40 pilots, screws 2-1/2 turns, and I was golden when I had it dyno-checked. But your exhaust system also has a lot to do with it, there are a near-infinite number of combinations which makes it hard to present a hard-and-fast set-up that works for everyone. My *guess* is, if you put the pods on, w/ the EPCOs and the above jetting, you'll be right in the wheelhouse. But as always, YMMV.

Quite understood. I didn't think I'd get this all perfect /just/ with other peoples experiences, but getting in the ball park and getting an idea of what I'm realistically looking at for the whole project is great info.

Aside from the jetting side, do you have any other concerns/problems with the pods? From what I've read it sounds like best-case: you rejet for the airflow, you keep them oiled, and everything is good. Worst case: you tinker with the carbs forever, never get the jetting right, they dry out, fly off, or cause problems in the rain.

Quote:

It also depends on what you're looking for - messing with the carbs will change things for sure. If you're looking for smooth mid-range, you may sacrifice some top-end. If you're looking for max HP, you may have some holes in the middle. Without getting into custom needles and serious expert tuning, you're going to have to make trade-offs.

Good point. I love the way my bike rides now, aside from the known flat spot around 3200-3500rpm, which I just ride through. I'm not looking for major HP gain, just a good strong pull as even as I can get it, and power when I need it. I'm always kind of amazed doing ~90 in 5th on an open highway, how much more power the TBS has, and pretty quickly. 110 shows up amazingly soon. :P
I don't ride it like that regulalrly, usually just once per trip if the highway is empty/safe enough, for the grin-factor. The majority of my riding is only highways to get to the twisty state/county roads, and the occasional commute around town.

Thanks again for the commentary & sanity checking of my ideas.

crosstie · 08-24-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by datapimp

Aside from the jetting side, do you have any other concerns/problems with the pods? From what I've read it sounds like best-case: you rejet for the airflow, you keep them oiled, and everything is good. Worst case: you tinker with the carbs forever, never get the jetting right, they dry out, fly off, or cause problems in the rain.

Yeah, that's about right

FWIW I've never had any problem with them in the rain, and I've ridden them in some pretty wet weather (although never for more then a couple hours, since riding in the rain sux.) Never had a problem with them flying off. The jetting worked out pretty well the first time... honestly I've never had much problem messing with the jetting except for when I swapped the cams. But I may just be less sensitive to flat spots and the like then some.

I have K&N pod filters that attach to the carbs via an aluminum adapter, I think originally from Jack Lilley. I can't speak for any other type of pod filter/adapter, they may not all handle the same in the wet, etc.

Bottom line, you can always try pods and re-jetting... it's not that huge a project, so it's really just the expense of the parts and maybe a dyno run. You can go back to stock easily enough.

But if you're happy with the way it is and you'd rather ride then wrench... throw the on EPCOs and enjoy

HTH.

Mojoinco · 08-28-2007

You could just put the K & N in, drill the airbox (under the black covers) and remove the union on the secondary airbox. If the bike bogs on acceleration, then tape over progressively more or the holes until the bog goes away (that way you don't have to jet it any -- or you could raise the needles with shims/washers and readjust the idle/low speed screws and paly with it). After you get it right (it may not matter if you are using the Epco's if they don't flow appreciably better), then you cna hack away at the secondary airbox (get a hole plug for the old exit).