So i've stumbled against the clutch not engaging. I've been reading that the clutch plates can get stuck if the bike has been sitting for a long time. It was sitting for over a year prior to me buying it. So I went ahead and leaned on it's side (I just BARELY put new oil in 2 months ago and I'm being cheap cause yea...) and pulled the clutch plates and the clutch rod. Took the plates out and the plates came out together in a bunch. Not sure what actually qualifies them for being stuck... Should they come out one by one? Also took out the clutch rod as the manual says and it had a ton of gunk on it. Is their anything else I should look into??
Clutch not engaging to me means you can't make the bike go. Clutch not disengaging means you cannot shift, or keep the bike from going.
Since you speak of stuck plates, I'm guessing you mean the clutch doesn't disengage. Most likely you have a problem with the slave cylinder. Does the clutch lever feel normal? When was the last time you changed the fluid in the clutch system?
Can you separate the plates? You may have to slide them apart. Oil has a lot of surface tension.
Oh OK well let me clarify, I can't get it into gear without it stalling while holding down the clutch. Soon as I kick it into first it stalls. Wasn't sure what to call it.
When the motorcycle is off, I can go through the gears but only by rocking the rear wheel. The clutch lever has no effect whatsoever. Not sure if that bit of info helps.
erm, it wouldn't be the c̶l̶u̶t̶c̶h̶ sidestand switch would it?
Try this -
You've already got the side cover off, so put the rod back in and actuate the clutch lever while pressing the rod inwards. The rod should rise.
If not, then there's a problem with either the slave or master cylinders.
If it moves up/down, reassemble the clutch, actuate the lever and observe the plates. If they're rising/falling, then the clutch is working properly - go onto the next test -
Put the engine in first gear, pull the clutch in and rock the bike forwards and backwards. You should feel the clutch free up after a few tries in each direction.
If the clutch plates free up, put up the sidestand & try starting it again and selecting first gear. If it stalls again - then there's a fault in the inhibitor circuit and I'd guess the sidestand switch is knackered.
erm, you aren't putting it into gear with the sidestand down are you?
Actually I JUST looked under the clutch release cylinder fluid escape inlet and I did notice some VERY tiny squirt coming out. Is that really enough for the clutch not to work properly???
To be honest I haven't touched the clutch system since buying the motorcycle. Didn't even notice it wasn't engaging until 2 weeks ago. Just getting around right now to checking it out now so any guidance is much appreciated since I'm still fairly new to tinkering with motorcycles.
OK, your clutch is permanently engaged and won't disengage. Don't pump the clutch lever while the clutch is out. With no resistance from the clutch you'll blow the hydraulic cylinder apart. If you're seeing fluid it's too late... No leakage is permissible.
The most common cause of a clutch that won't disengage, especially when it's being used regularly, is a hydraulic problem. The best way to prolong the life of the hydraulics is to flush the fluid at least every 2 years. (Brakes, too.)
At this point I would remove the clutch slave cylinder and inspect it. You may need to replace the seals, or you may get away with just cleaning it, putting it back together and bleeding the system. The slave cylinder pushes on that rod and the rod releases the spring pressure on the clutch plates, allowing the driven plates to turn independent of the drive plates.
OBTW, in the interest of concise communication, I quote from "When Fact Meets Friction: The Basics of Clutch Operation," Ford Motor Company, March 18, 2010:
(Italics added for emphasis)
"Engaging the clutch allows power to transfer from the engine to the transmission and drive wheels. Disengaging the clutch stops the power transfer and allows the engine to continue turning without force to the drive wheels."
John has explained things there - definitely sounds like the clutch release hydraulics. What tends to happen, as brake/clutch hydraulic fluid (DoT3 or DoT4) is hygroscopic - ie it absorbs water - is that water collects over time and causes corrosion, mainly at the slave cylinder end. Hence the universal vehicle maintenance requirement to renew the fluid every 2yrs. (Tho' few people do..)
On these bikes, the clutch itself tends not to give much problem. It's the exact same clutch fitted to all the T3 series Triumphs, triples and fours right up to the 147hp Daytona 1200 four.
Something else to be aware of is the clutch pushrod seal - sealing off engine oil where the clutch release rod goes thru' the left side engine (sprocket) cover, which mounts the slave cylinder on it. That outlet you noticed will leak engine oil if this seal fails, so it can be confused with a hydraulic seal problem (which is much rarer). The clutch pushrod seal can be problematic and there's been a number of threads about it on here, and on the T3 Sport/Touring section forum. (Use search function to find them if you need more info.)
Curious as to why you have a TBS tipped over on its side to save two quarts of oil? A new drip pan is like 3$...and you'll need one.
Separate the clutch disks and friction disks and soak them in a drip pan filled with oil for a day or two. Pay attention as to which way they're installed. Put it back together and you should be good to go as far as the clutch goes.
Awesome! Thanks for clearing that up for me WSC and IrlMIke, wasn't sure what to call it.
By the way no, the kickstand was not down.
Since it was sitting for over year before I got it and that I don't know how well the bike was maintained throughout the years, I'll be doing new fluids all around that's for sure. Plus out of curiosity I stuck my finder inside the master cylinder reservoir and felt some serious gunk(?) inside. Picture below is what came up with my finger...
Rollinslow: When I read the previous posts I read to put it on its side... Wasn't sure how to go about it so I just laid it down on soft ground. And will do on the clutch plates.
Arfer: I did actually push the lever in before reassembling and saw the push rod rise and fall. I just tried rocking it back and forth again and it gave way but its pretty rough. Should it be as loose as when in neutral?? I'll start it up again once I charge the battery (sprag clutch is not something I'm for tackling anytime soon considering I'm still learning haha).
Mike: I couldn't tell you if it jerked or not. I had it on bike stands at the moment
I'll tinker with it a little more tomorrow once the weather clears up here since I don't have a garage to work in.
Once again, seriously thanks for the advice and your patience with noob me!
Edit: Quick question, do you guys apply cooper based grease to the back of your brake pads and pad pins?? I know it prevents squeaking but I 've read that the grease can potentially creep into the cylinder and deteriorate the seals.
^^^
Yuk... That fluid looks nasty. It's not the first time someone has posted pics of clutch cheese.
As far as the copper based grease or anti-seize, it's common to use. I think a better practice is to use that red rubber grease, on the caliper pistons and the brake pad pins.
Never bothered with copper grease on the pads and it should be red rubber grease on the pins so the rubber boots/bellows don't rot.
I've been told don't use copper grease anywhere. If a high temp grease is needed anywhere (which it isn't really), an Aluminium grease is much better. I'm inclined to agree with this.
I use regular disk brake pad/pin grease available at the auto parts for all the pad and pin metal-to-metal contact points. Obviously, be very careful to not allow any of it on the disk or pad friction surfaces, and clean off with brake cleaner if you inadvertently get any there. I believe that it is safe and compatible with any and all brake component rubber.
Where red rubber grease (RRG) is indispensable is on caliper seals, or any other rubber that may be in contact with brake FLUID. If I understand correctly, RRG is compatible with all of the DOT3, DOT4, synthetic, etc., brake fluids, and any other lube has the potential to contaminate/degrade them.
The innards of both my brake and clutch master cylinders were just the same as yours. I removed them, drained, and rinsed out with brake cleaner, then let thoroughly dry and blew out with compressed air before refilling and bleeding. Bleeding these little cylinders is an adventure. There are several threads on here and in the "maintenance" sub-forum with tips.
"Mike: I couldn't tell you if it jerked or not. I had it on bike stands at the moment"
So if the wheels are indeed off the ground and it stalls when you put it in gear, that tells me it's a sidestand switch problem.
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