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Hinckley Classic Triples 885cc Classic Styled T3's: Legend, Thunderbird, Thunderbird Sport & Adventurer.

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Old 10-21-2012, 11:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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O2 Sensor location problem

So, I bought this nice Innovate A/F meter kit with gauge and all.

G2 Gauge / LC-1 Kit - P/N: 3801 - #3801

So far so good. Now comes the installation:

It requires a O2 sensor to be welded into the exhaust system. The manual and customer support recommend to put it into the header pipe, about 12" away from the head.

Now, as we all know, we got THREE header pipes, all could potentially give a different a/f reading due to O2 content of exhaust.

For tuning purposes, this would mean you need to install THREE bungs (one in each header) to allow an accurate exhaust a/f examination.

This would leave me with the dilemma of either installing said three bungs and swap the sensor over to monitor each cylinder exhaust individually and ruin the look of the header pipes (and bike as a whole) - or settle for a sensor installation in the rear after the collector of the 3-into-1 system and get (potentially) an inaccurate reading (which could be pretty meaningless overall).

Question to the community - has anyone installed this LC-1 thing successfully? If so, where did you place the sensor (and in addition to that - how and where did you mount the gauge?)???

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hmmm looks like you need 3 of them so that you can balance the a/f ratio?
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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No experience or special knowledge to offer but I'd have thought after the collector is getting too near the tail pipe, esp if the silencer is just a glass pack type?

But surely fitting to one cylinder should be fine? I'm thinking carburettors are much less precise & much harder to fine tune than fuel injection in any case, so not sure what could be achieved with each cylinder?

I guess you want to ensure everything is tip top in the carbs/coils/plugs/valve clearances etc. to be sure the gauge info is consistent. If you haven't already, I suggest fitting some Iridium plugs - they seem to stay very clean & reliable imo.

Be very interested to hear what results you get if you fit it
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Old 10-22-2012, 07:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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ok i might be way off here but am thinking u want to mount the sensor in the header pipe as far as my t/bird we have bolts installed in headers for this purpose but they are arnd 6 inches from the head port not sure if this is what u neeed or if the headers can adapt to others in the tripple range
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, the bolts, intended for CO sniffers, are much smaller than the wide band O2 sensor (18mm, IIRC).

I've been wrestling with the same question and am leaning toward the #1 pipe, a few inches before the balance pipe. This should give a reading primarily for the #1 cylinder and should make it easier to isolate any effects. (The main reason I'd do it is to aid tuning.)
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Last edited by WSC; 10-23-2012 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Interesting!

It sounds like you have a good idea. Keep in mind what you want to accomplish. If you are getting proper jet sizes and needle positions, would you install different jets in different carbs due to a different reading between the headers? If not, then one is probably good enough.

It would be interesting to get readings from the bung you install, then take the sensor and put it in the muffler exit and see what difference you get, if any.

One idea that MIGHT be worth checking is an adapter for the CO sniffer bung. If the sensor does not have to be right in the stream, that might be good enough. The ratio of the different gases is probably going to be the same just outside the stream, within an adapter, as it would be within the stream.

Another thing would be to simply replace the CO sniffer bungs with the larger O2 sensor bungs. If you ever needed to use CO you could presumably get an adapter to go the other way. This is assuming your CO bungs are not being used...

It might be an idea for someone to buy one of these and rent it out to others on the forum so they can get their jets right, assuming a muffler reading is good enough. 3 or 4 rentals might pay for the thing.

Last edited by PaulBx; 10-23-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulBx View Post
It might be an idea for someone to buy one of these and rent it out to others on the forum so they can get their jets right, assuming a muffler reading is good enough. 3 or 4 rentals might pay for the thing.
I was thinking the same thing. This could be a very valuable tuning tool if it works; and you really only need it once.

I would try an adapter in the existing CO bung on cylinder 1 first. That would be the cleanest way assuming it can pull a reliable reading. It would also make it easy for renters to use it.

I wonder if Bosch sells a comparable 02 sensor with threads that match the CO bung?
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I decided to get one myself, a different model that is not as expensive:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php

Amazon had it for around $170.

Quote:
It requires a O2 sensor to be welded into the exhaust system. The manual and customer support recommend to put it into the header pipe, about 12" away from the head.
The manual for the one I bought said it was acceptable to shove it up the tailpipe as long as it is far enough in to not be "contaminated" by clear air being drawn into the pipe between exhaust pulses. That is how I intend to use it, just to get my jetting right. I am not using it for a permanent installation. I might be talked into lending it out if I can find a way to protect myself from it being broken when in someone else's hands. Probably charge a bit to pay for the bother, along with a deposit. Or I might just sell it at a reduced cost to the next guy in line. I will have to see how I like fooling with it and what vehicles I can use it on.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PaulBx View Post
I might just sell it at a reduced cost to the next guy in line.
Let me know how it works and put me at the top of the list! (Please!)
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulBx View Post
The manual for the one I bought said it was acceptable to shove it up the tailpipe as long as it is far enough in to not be "contaminated" by clear air being drawn into the pipe between exhaust pulses.
Something struck me as wrong about this. Today, in a flash of insight, I thought I had it. After doing a little research. I'm convinced it will not work. As it turns out, the O2 sensor works by comparing the O2 content of the exhaust to that of the atmosphere. To that end, the external part of the sensor has to be exposed to atmospheric air. How it would work shoved up the tail pile escapes me.
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