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Old 06-19-2005   #1 (permalink)
stevejacko
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Hi all you Thunderbird specialists I have a problem with a 2002 with only 3500 moiles on the clock, I know not many miles for a 3 year old but I've been too busy to ride.
I put the bike in for an intermediate service because it wasn't running well at low rev's. When in traffic in 1st gear below 2,000 revs if cough's and splutters as if it may cut out. When above 2500 it runs great. I have tried a cleaner in the fuel and tested the HT coils with the following readings :razz: rimary Coil Secondary Coil
No.1 0.5 8.5
No.2 0.5 7.0
No.3 0.5 7.0
Should be 0.63 10 .5 according to Haynes book.+/- 10%
Do these look OK, I havn't checked the Pickup coil yet as my tester wouldn't swith to 100 scale.
I don't think it's fuel and the Triumph mechanic did't think it was fuel either. He said putting it on a diagnostic tester did'nt always show any problems.
Having read a number of coil problems on this site I hope there is someone out there that can help. fionasteve@blueyonder.co.uk
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Old 06-19-2005   #2 (permalink)
ashokanman
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I am one of the folks who have had similar problems (resolved with the help of the folks on this forum :-) ) ..... In my case it was a case of a not fully charged battery and a "weak" coil. Fully charging the battery helped in that the higher voltage helped the weak coil fire more often but it still did not work completely/run properly until the bike was rev'd over 4K RPM's.

So... first, check the battery voltage (don't assume like I did that because the headlight remained bright while cranking the engine that the battery is in good condition). For more on this check the "1 1/2 Cylinder Triple" topic via my profile (or do a search) .

Next, if you can get your hands on an inductive timing light you should be able to determine if its a weak coil (or bad wire, etc...) . In my case I connected the light to each of the plug wires in succession and discovered that one was simply not firing at all at idle (well - actually it was firing but once every 10 seconds or so doesn't really count). A perhaps less scientific way to do this is to pull the plug wires while the bike is running - if you pull a wire and there it little/no change in the way the bike is running, you know which cylinder is the problem. Then, if you swap the coils, and the problem moves with the coil and/or plug wire, you know where/what the culprit is....

Steve
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Old 06-19-2005   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
...I have a problem with a 2002 with only 3500 moiles on the clock... it wasn't running well at low rev's. When in traffic in 1st gear below 2,000 revs if cough's and splutters as if it may cut out. When above 2500 it runs great.
Where is your idle set? If it's not right on 1,000 rpm the engine can be a bit erratic coming off idle.

Have you had a carb balance recently? If the balance is off that can affect low rpm performance and cause misfiring.

What's the condition of your battery? Triumphs are notorious for boiling batteries and a 3-year old battery could well be on it's way out.

Check the battery voltage with the ignition turned off. A good battery will read between 13 and 13.2 volts with no load and fully charged. Check the voltage again with the ignition on and the engine not running. It should read a minimum of 12 volts.

If the battery is weak the voltage will drop at an idle and you may get misfires until the alternator takes over -- usually someplace from 2500 to 3500 rpm.

Remove the battery cables, wire brush everything until shiny, grease everything and reconnect it. That will eliminate a poor connection from the list of possibles.


Quote:
I have tried a cleaner in the fuel
Good move -- a bit of varnish in the pilot circuits could be driving the mixture excessively lean. You might want to remove a float bowl and check for dirt and varnish buildup there. If there's crud you'll want to pull all the bowls and clean them out. Also check the tiny filter hidden in the fuel line "T."


Quote:
and tested the HT coils with the following readings rimary Coil Secondary Coil
No.1 0.5 8.5
No.2 0.5 7.0
No.3 0.5 7.0
Should be 0.63 10.5 according to Haynes book.+/- 10%
The primary resistances are probably OK since most meters are pretty inaccurate below one ohm, but I'd be a bit concerned with the secondary resistances since shorted secondary turns are a common coil failure mode.

Shorted turns make for a "weak" coil that misfires if the system voltage is low -- like at an idle. Basically, the shorted turns reduce the voltage multiplication of the coil and if the input voltage is low there may not be enough voltage on the secondary to fire the plugs.

Try connecting a spare spark plug to the coil wire and grounding the metal end with an automotive jumper/booster cable to a good ground. Crank the engine and look at the color of the spark. If it's fat and blue, the coil's probably OK. If it's thin and yellow it's weak. Do the same with the other leads and note the spark colors -- they should all be blue.

If all three coils are showing a yellow spark, check the system voltage again. It's entirely possible for all three coils to fail simultaneously but it's not common. If the battery is putting out 12 volts at an idle it should be OK.

Another test for weak coils is to replace the spark plugs. New plugs have sharper edges and fire more easily than used plugs. If the problem clears up for a while and then returns, it's weak coils.

Quote:
I havn't checked the Pickup coil yet...
The pickups usually fail with increasing temperature and shut down until they cool off a bit. Rpm and voltage sensitivity is usually not an issue with the pickups.

Good Luck!

Jim
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Old 06-20-2005   #4 (permalink)
stevejacko
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Thanks for all your advice, when I have time I will reply with results.
SteveJacko
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Old 06-20-2005   #5 (permalink)
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Dont forget to make sure the spark plugs and/or the boots have not come loose. I had this same issue and after countless hours of tracking the problem I took it to the dealer to find out that is all it was. Good luck! Stay safe.
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Old 06-21-2005   #6 (permalink)
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hi steve,
my t.bird had a similar problem.the coil readings showed them to be ok.this confuses the fault diagnosis.
however,it was a faulty coil.changed it and its running great.mine was going faulty at about 2500 rpm.over 3500rpm it was running fine and firing on all three.
geoff :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:
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Old 08-07-2005   #7 (permalink)
stevejacko
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Thanks for all your advice, I seem to have taken a long time , but I have finally found the problem. I purchased a new ignition coil some Weeks ago and changed No.1 without any change, next was No.2 and its running at 95% I'm tempted to change No.3 as the readings I got when I tested the coils No. 2 & 3 were the same .

What the hell it's only money, but when it's running right the bike is great.

I bought a set of Kappa luggage back in May, but I have,not fit it yet because of all the problems with it not running correctly. I've now decided to have a go at fitting it but it looks complicated. I'll let you know how I get on later.

Thanks for all your advice.
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