Triumphrat

bsampson

Hi,

I have an '00 Legend that I have spent most of the year tidying up (it had been standing unused in a damp garage for 5 years).

Took it out today for it's first run after sucessully getting it through it's MOT, but it was a short lived journey. These are the symptoms;

It started perfectly from cold, and for the first half mile or so it was running great. Then it started to misfire below 4,000 revs.

After two miles, the misfire was worse, and it wouldn't tick over below 2,500 revs. If I let the revs drop towards 2,000, the tacho needle bounces about erratcially between 0 and 2,000.

Pulling away from traffic lights I had to slip the clutch and rev above 4,000 or it would just stall.

Above 4,000 revs she pulls like a feight train!

Based on what I've read here in the forums, I'm thinking it may be the Ignition Pick Up Sensor, but I wanted to check what people here thought before picking up the phone to Sprint and ordering a replacement.

I did do a visual check of the coils (PVL's), and other than a little corrosion on the terminals (which I cleaned up) they look ok.

The bike is very low mileage, having only 5k on the clock, but because of the way it was stored, I was wondering if I may as well go the whole hog and replace the coils too? Are they the kind of thing that would have suffered from the cold and damp? (And if the answer is yes, should I go with PVL's from Sprint? - I think I've read here that they're the same as the Nology ones that people recommend).

Thanks for any help.

Barry

BigAl8295

Have you cleaned the carbs?

After that length of time in storage, that's where I'd start.

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denny

Have you opened the Carbs and cleaned the jets really good?
That symptom sounds like dirty pilot jets.

Is the tank clean? Have you cleaned the petcock screens?
Do you know about the tiny little duckbill filter in the fuel line?

i'd make sure those are top notch before going on to the ignition.

If it is a coil it will seem like it is missing on one cylinder. It's extremely unusual for all 3 coils to fail at the same time.

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Cheers,Denny

Gdsila

sounds likepilot jets to me. the ignition pick-up failure symptoms are : starts easily and runs fine until hot. Then stalls like fuel starvation. After some time 5 to 15 minutes starts right up again and runs fine for a short distance then dies again. Wait 10-15 mins starts up fine..ect.
The symptoms your describing are weak/failing coils and or clogged pilot jets. my guess after all this time its the pilot jets. any fuel left in the carbs that long has probably gummed up the pilots. You'll need to pull the carbs, remove the pilot jets and examine them with a magnifier or jewelers loop. The small round openings in the jet should have a "machined" look.
If they look "fuzzy or organic" they need to be soaked in carb cleaner and carefully cleaned. the jets are brass so be careful. use a strand of copper wire (like from a wirebrush) to remove any "fuzziness" and also check the duckbill filter between the center and right hand side carburator.
hope this helps.

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bsampson

Thanks for your replies.

After all that time standing, the carbs were so cruddy that my own efforts to clean them failed. They were sent away for ultrasonic cleaning and rebulld. Once refitted they were balanced, and the mixture adjusted, so I think I'm ok on the carb front.

I dumped the old fuel that was in the tank when I bought it, and cleaned it out as best I could. I also cleaned the fuel tap.

I was thinking ignition for two reasons; one is the tacho behaviour, the other is that I had a coil break down on a 550 Zephyr, and that had similar symptoms when warm.

Greaser

Of the two TBS I have had, BOTH of them had bouncing tachs and both of them ran AOK. My current TBS has had a bouncing tach for the last 8 1/2 years and I have put over 70,000km on the bike since it started bouncing.
I would wait until your carbs come back before tearing in any further. One thing at a time. I would almost put money (if I had any that is) on your carbs being the main issue.
While the carbs are off, how old are the spark plugs? Maybe your bike would like a fresh set of plugs too?

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Gdsila

if your really confidant in the work you had done on the carbs then it could be the coils. weak/failing coils have similar symptoms to clogged pilots. however with such lo miles and the relative rarity of all 3 coils failing at once (though not impossible I guess) the carbs are the usual suspect.
If you do decide its the coils then either Nology or PVL will work. I replaced my OEM coils at 54,000 miles with Nology coils and they have performed beautifully.

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Gdsila

this is a re-post from our resident expert jimmyj900:
Starting System Symptoms:

Weak battery symptoms:
-- Slow cranking.
-- Stops cranking suddenly on compression stroke with button pressed.
-- Starts when starter button is released at end of cranking.
Repair:
-- Charge/Test/Replace battery.
Failure Modes:
-- Loss of capacity. Appears to charge, voltage good but no reserve for starting.
-- Won't hold a charge.
-- Low voltage/cell failure.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- Check fluid levels regularly
-- Maintain full charge: Regular riding, trickle charger.

Ignition Coil failure symptoms:
-- Hard starting/misfiring during cranking.
-- Rough idle that can't be tuned out with carb adjustments and carb cleaning.
-- Idle misfire clears with new sparkplugs, returns in a few hundred miles
Repair:
-- Replace: Preferably with Nology for higher reliability than stock Gill coils.
Failure Mode:
-- Shorted turns in secondary resulting in weak spark.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- None
Testing:

Pickup Coil failure symptoms:
-- No spark at all
-- Spark quits with engine hot, returns when engine cool.
-- Note: Pickup coil failure is total. There is no random misfire spark loss.
Repair:
-- Replace pickup coil
Failure mode:
-- Thermal intermittant with long (15-30 minute) period.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- None. Get a spare.
Testing:
-- Ohms checks hot and cold.

Worn starter symptoms:
-- Sometimes won't crank until the bike is rocked in gear.
-- Excessively noisy cranking with a grinding sound.
-- Click from under seat but no cranking.
Failure Mode:
-- Brush wear progressing to commutator damage.
-- Bearing failure related to brush wear.
Repair:
-- Rebuild or replace.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- Maintan battery in peak condition.
-- Follow proper starting procedures. Neutral, clutch in.
-- Crank 5-10 seconds at a time max., switch off for twice as long before cranking again.

Worn sprag clutch symptoms:
-- Very loud rattling when cranking
-- Starter spins but engine doesn't turn
Falure Mode:
-- Breakage
Repair:
-- Replace sprag clutch
Preventative Maintenance:
-- Maintain battery in peak condition.
-- Follow proper starting procedures. Neutral, clutch in.

Worn starter solenoid:
-- Click from under seat but no cranking.
-- Won't crank after rocking bike.
-- Starter continues to run after bike starts and won't stop until the battery is disconnected.
Failure mode:
-- Internal contact damage resulting in non-conduction.
-- Internal contact damage resulting in contacts welding shut.
-- Internal damage/wear prevents solenoid core movement.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- None.
Repair:
-- Replace starter solenoid.
Testing:
-- For no cranking, short across solenoid high-power terminals. Normal operation denotes failed solenoid contacts.

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bsampson

The rebuilt carbs are on the bike. Before the cleaning it wouldn't even start

bsampson

Thanks all of you for replying.

It sounds like I should be turning my attention back to the carbs. Oh joy...