Triumphrat

Herbus

Hi Folks,

I have trouble starting my bike in the cold and one of the suggestions is that the tune is causing a problem - I run the Tuneboy 1050 Arrow 3-into-1 (tune # 20210) with Chain Reaction high-mounts.

The bike is stored outside and after a cold night (anywhere below 10 celcius-ish) I will not be able to start it in the morning. After the sun shines on it for a little while, it will start fine.

It's not the battery. Have tried 3 batteries - 2 Yuasa and 1 Deka, all with the same problem.

One thing I notice is that my bike tries to start but doesn't fire and then gives up - I have posted a video here so you can listen to it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6VQaAS6_z4
When I took this video the ECU took ages to do it's thing and be ready to try starting - it does this rarely, but sometimes... usually it's a normal ECU start, then I hit the starter and, well, listen to it - it tries for 1 second then DIES.. then the ECU resets and I can try again, same result, over and over...

I have listened to another bike with a flat battery try to start - it would crank and crank and crank and eventually fired, so why does mine stop trying after 1 second or so?

It's been suggested I remove the Tuneboy tune and go with the Triumph-spec one... I thought they'd be the same but I'm told the tuneboy is still richer across the range. Can anyone confirm a difference?

I'm happy to try the Triumph-dealer tune, but I've also been told it's difficult or sometimes impossible to remove tuneboy once it's on... I would have thought re-flashing over the top would do the trick, I'm in IT so this makes sense to me, so can someone confirm whether the tuneboy can be removed easily?

Any other suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

Joemomma

Tuneboy is basically an interface that allows you to load a "tune" in, no different than what the factory or dealer does.

Having said that, it sounds as if you have a different issue. Are you SURE the battery is fully charged, as in you have checked it with a DVM or VOM? Have you checked the battery terminal connections to make sure they are super clean and absolutely tight? I would also removed and reinsert every fuse and relay one at a time, looking for any corrosion or burn marks on each as I did so.

I'm sure someone who has more experience troubleshooting these will chime in shortly with more info ( starter switch? starter relay? bad ECU?), but to me it doesn't sound like any particular "tune" is the issue.

__________________
insert clever saying here...

bobmcduff

Does anyone know if the bike is smart enough to sense that it is running and prevent you from accidentaly hitting the starter button and grinding out the starter? Possible some sort of sensor or adjustment? Also to the OP, have you tried using the Tuneboy software to reset all the sensors and see if that gives any improvement?

__________________
Pics of my bike located
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bob_mcduff/

Darkhorse

lol. it's just winter for the aussies guys.

get a battery tender.
I can almost guarantee you that your starting problem is due to your battery being below 12.8 volts. If it doesnt have at least 12.8, it'll crank like that then shut off and run through diagnostics again. I think it's a 2008 and up thing for Speed Triples. 07's will crank and crank.

get a cheap multimeter at your local hardware store and test the battery.
Be sure to post your results.

also, for some weird reason (it's fuel injected), if you blip the throttle when it's stuggling it might come to life when normal cranking wont.


i know you tried other batteries, but did you ever test em?

definitely something going on during your diagnostics. Have you tried simply re-loading the tune?

vfdaytona1200

it would not be the tune affecting your start up, i would suggest contacting british customs because they have a tune for the chain reaction duals and the arrow 3 into 1 tune is not right for the exhaust, the arrow dual tune would be a better option. As far as your battery, if you keep losing a charge, you might have a stator problem affecting your charging system. It also sounds like your starter is spinning and might need a new one. best bet is to take it to your triumph dealer to have it checked out, but check on that tune it will make your bike run really nice

__________________
Who has a stretched Triumph? I do!

bbonnett33

My bike (07) does the same thing when it is cold. I have searched in here for corrections to the issue and other threads have suggested getting the sprag clutch replaced. I do not know exactly what it is but from what others have told me it is what causes that high pitched spinning sound after the engine turns over a couple times. If the bike is still under warranty it should be covered.

+1 on the battery tender. I keep miine plugged in all the time when it is at home. However this isnt always practical. I went to the AMA races (Elkhert Lake, WI) and it was cold and raining. When I got back to the bike it wouldn't start and I had to catch a ride home and trailer it back. In 1500 miles I have to take it in for the 6000 mile service and i will address the issue with the dealer then. Hope this helps.

Ferris

I spent about 20 minutes on the phone to my mechanic yesterday, because I've started to have this issue as well. Very similar to the video, although mine cranks over a little longer before the starter motor disengages.
The weird thing about mine is that once started, it no longer plays up. I can run the engine for 30 seconds, shut it down, restart and it will crank at full speed.
It would seem I made some errors activating my new battery (purchased two days ago) and didn't give enough time before putting it in the bike. I left it for a few hours last night and the checked the battery with a multimeter (13.1v). Bike cranked fast and started fine, so hopefully it'll do the same this morning. If so, I'll be going no further!

So my mechanic told me to start at the battery, give it some time and I need a minimum of 12.6v before trying to start the bike.
He was able to rule out a dirty solenoid connection with mine, because the slow crank would be happening all the time, not only when the bike is first started.
Then it would be down to worn brushes or crap building up in the starter motor. Finally the sprag clutch.

While on the phone, I asked him about the TuneBoy thing. He said unless someone had been fiddling around with the map, it was a non-issue and the problem lies between the battery and starter motor/sprag clutch.

I hope you sort yours out Herbus! I know this issue has been pissing me off and mine isn't as bad as yours.

Herbus

OK, yesterday morning I tried to start - it hesitated only slightly and started ok - I had pointed the hairdryer down the exhaust for 2 mins before trying so the air in there was warmer/dryer. It was an experiment... I wasn't about to get my hopes up with a single success...

I tried to start this morning, nice chilly morning... normal fuel pump/ecu cycle, hit the starter and after 1 second it cut out like usual... I wouldn't expect it to work...

BUT

Stick the hairdryer in the exhaust for 2 minutes, tried starting and it fired EASY

At least I know how to get going in the mornings now

SO I guess this adds weight to it being a the wrong fuelling/tune for denser/moist air or a bad sensor... I should have loan of a tuneboy cable in a week so I will try the arrow highmount tune...

Can anyone tell me - I have an O2 sensor today, but would it be OK to disable it with tuneboy? I mean, is it likely to help, are there pros and cons..? Are there any other sensors that may need to be considered with my warm-air-in-the-exhaust trick?

Ta

vfdaytona1200

the arrow tune should work alot better because you arent getting good back pressure with that GP tune, tuneboy might have a chain reaction tune as an option to go with. as far as the O2 sensor, i would bypass it and plug it up....but if it dont run put the o2 sensor back and play with the tune

__________________
Who has a stretched Triumph? I do!

Ferris

Interesting with the hair dryer technique lol. I do know the the mufflers retain a huge amount of moisture as I've had one apart (long story).

Mine seems to be mint now, so it looks like it was the battery in my case!