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Synthetic Oil VS Bike Specific Synthetic Oil

7K views 36 replies 12 participants last post by  Stlakid 
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#1 ·
I was at the local bike shop today and the mechanic mentioned that the synthetic oil they sell is specifically formulated for motorcycles. Does anyone know if it really makes a difference? I mean, Castrol and Motil both make excellent synthetic oils, are they not as good as the oils specifically designed for bikes? Just curious as the oil they sell is called "Golden Spectro 4" and I have never heard of it?!
 
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#2 ·
Some years ago, maybe around 99 or 2000, Triumph pulled their Mobil 1 from the marketplace after it was discovered that their oil was Mobil1 automotive rather than motorcycle specific. This has been discussed repeatedly on every forum there is, there are plenty of people who will say they get excellent performance from inexpensive auto oil. Motorcycle engine oil has to protect in ways that auto engines don't- low engine speeds to insane engine speeds, the shear in transmissions, etc. I'm not an engineer or a chemist, I just figure if you're spending serious $ on a serious high performance bike, why would you want to cheap out on oil?
 
G
#3 ·
as a automechanic I get these questions alot, I work on cars so it is th synthetic vs. regular oil...I tell them that if we were so technilogically advanced enough that we could make synthetic oil, don't you think that the drilling for fossilized oil would stop and you would be seeing it on the news!!! Synthetic oil is basically a ripoff oil that has additives in it...but I will also tell you that it is always the best idea to use factory reccommended parts....aftermarket most of the time just won't do...don't believe me go put some bosch plugs (plat.s) in there and see how many misfires you get!!! they SUCK!!
 
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#5 ·
Non-factory spec parts can and do work. That's why NGK's work well in my Ducati despite the fact that Champions are recommended. And, of course, we've all heard of K&N filters, Barnett clutches, Termignoni exhausts, etc. One of the reasons that there are motorcycle specific motor oils has to do with the wet clutch of most motorcycles. Ducati's that run dry clutches can use auto oil with no problem. But, wet clutch bikes require motorcycle specific oil due to the additives. BTW, Ducati specs synthetic oil for their superbikes. But, then, what do they know?


Bruce19
 
#6 ·
When using "auto" synthetic oil, clutch slippage is not the concern. It's the starter clutch slippage that some people needlessly moan about.

All the synthetic oils are good. But the question is -- Do I want to spend 8 or 9 dollars a quart or do I want to spend less than 5 dollars a quart? Now I know that if you're an every-other-weekend rider or God forbid, a "poser" it may take quite a while to put several thousand miles on a bike. And if you only change the oil twice a year $9 a quart is not a lot of money. But if you really ride, pile up the miles and change your oil a lot, regular "car" synthetic oil can save you a lot of money.

By the way, I ride a '98 Sprint 900 with 75,000+ trouble free miles. Starts every time, it's fast, smooth, does not leak or burn oil and gets good MPG. I've used Mobil 1 15w-50 "auto" oil since day 1.

For what it's worth.

j98sprint
 
#7 ·
When using "auto" synthetic oil, clutch slippage is not the concern. It's the starter clutch slippage that some people needlessly moan about.

All the synthetic oils are good. But the question is -- Do I want to spend 8 or 9 dollars a quart or do I want to spend less than 5 dollars a quart? Now I know that if you're an every-other-weekend rider or God forbid, a "poser" it may take quite a while to put several thousand miles on a bike. And if you only change the oil twice a year $9 a quart is not a lot of money. But if you really ride, pile up the miles and change your oil a lot, regular "car" synthetic oil can save you a lot of money.

By the way, I ride a '98 Sprint 900 with 75,000+ trouble free miles. Starts every time, it's fast, smooth, does not leak or burn oil and gets good MPG. I've used Mobil 1 15w-50 "auto" oil since day 1.

For what it's worth.

j98sprint
 
G
#8 ·
Every dealer or shop that I've ever dealt with has said that clutch slippage is a problem when using non-motorcycle specific oil (synthetic or not). So, I'm interested in knowing more about the current state of oils with respect to this issue. Can you direct me to a source for more info? Thanks.


Bruce19
 
#9 ·
I know these oil threads tend to really raise peoples ire and I try to stay out of them, but for 2 good reasons I choose to mouth off.

1.) I can't speak for all non-motorcycle specific oils but the Mobil 1 I've been using for the past 7 years does NOT cause slippage of any kind on my motorcycle that, simply put, runs as good as new. The clutch plates are original. It's the bike with 75,000+ miles on it. Maybe Triumph put some super secret special clutch plates in my bike at the factory back in '98, but I doubt it. This is the only source of info that I have and it's pretty convincing to me.

2.) I hate to see my Triumph riding brothers and sisters get taken by greedy marketers.

j98sprint
 
#10 ·
Firstly, you must absolutely not use car motor oil in a motorcycle engine because contrary to an automobile (and most Harleys) a motorcycle powered by a 4-stroke mill needs an oil that will protect both the engine and the clutch. Car motor oil is not designed for this for it only circulates in the engine. Castrol Syntec is not designed for motorcyle applications but automotive. Castrol offers a range of motorcycle-specific oils. You should check these out instead.

The price of oil should not be a factor when choosing one for your motorcyle, especially if has a high performance engine and you paid more that $12 K for the darn thing. You should consider an oil for what it offers and delivers. I use Castrol Castrol R4 Superbike and pay about $ 15.00 CAD per litre. Why do I use it ? Because it provides the goods: smoother shifting and enhanced engine protection. If I would have easier access to Mobil 1 4T, it would be what I'd pour in my Dayt'.

Racing oils are not designed for everyday use. As it says in the name they are "racing" oils. The protection required for a race bike is different than the one needed by a bike which experience the abuse of everyday riding (whether on long or short rides, in the city or in the countryside). Remember that race bikes are often opened up and rebuilt immediately after a race.

Lastly, avoid oils brewed by such small regional companies as Amzoil, Klutz, Spectro and others. These want-to be companies often use old technology and have limited access to OEM's developement departments. Companies such as Mobil, Castrol, Motorex and Shell are working closely in partnership with OE manufacturers and benefit from engineering exchanges. OEM engineering departments approve and recommend these oils for one main reason: their engines have passed tests while using these specific products and results are scientifically supported.

Well that's it folks.

Spring will be here on the 20th of March­. Can't wait!

Aston Green makes me mean.
 
G
#11 ·
J98Sprint:

FWIW, I am not at all upset about your comment. I'd just like to read up on it so I can educate myself. Aside from your own experience, which has value to me, is there any source info you can recommend for me?

Bruce19
 
G
#12 ·
Thanks Claude, that's what I needed to know. I will definitely stick with bike specific oil, but will be searching out a better brand!

Regarding oil changes...I bought a K&N filter for the 955i and it has NICE 17mm bolt head on the filter for easy removal...good improvement!
 
#15 ·
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html


Read that.

I've yet to see a thread, or hear an in-person conversation about oil in which any of the participants (present company included...me) knew _anything_ about which they spoke. This article is an excellent background about what various oils are actually made of, how they work and why, etc.

Then, for a slightly less complete, but similar piece, read this:

http://www.gis.net/~manjo/motorcycle_motor_oil.htm

If anyone can read these and still think it's a good idea to buy $9/qt "motorcycle oil" I'd be very surprised.
 
#17 ·
Yeah, that post is BS. I have read every test I could find, plus heard High mileage testimony from people I know, and some Iron Butt riders, and have come to the conclusion that I'm wasting my money on the Triumph badged oil @ 48 bucks for 4 qts. I'm going to use the money saved to pay for gas.
 
#20 ·
For what it's worth, the dreaded moly additive that everyone fears will damage their clutch is present in greater amounts in some motorcycle oils, and Honda synth has roughly the same amount as Mobil 15-50.


As for the racing oil comment, any oil that says 'racing' on it is exempt from the EPA regulations limiting the amount of anti-wear additives; the ones that protect your engine/tranny by providing boundary lubrication when hydrodynamic lubrication isn't present.
 
#21 ·
I just got back from a long blast affter work. I got on it hard a lot, and didn't notice any clutch slippage. But I noticed the Purolator 14612 filter had a bit of oil on the bottom. Does anyone have this filter on their '01 Daytona or S3? I cranked it down hand tight right after changing the oil, fired it up, and it pissed out. So I hand cranked it down a bit more. What's the deal? Do I have to use a filter tool? I'd like the oil to stay inside!!
 
#24 ·
In response to the article found on DrDietThunder's posting, here is what I have to say.

Motorcycle Oil (MCO) vs. Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) has been debated for years and as with most articles on lubricating oils this too has its flaws and merits. There are good technical reasons why motorcycle oil should be different from most PCMO's. Viscosity retention would be a reason but it is by no means either the most important or only reason. Also for viscosity retention, that only matters providing the minimum operating viscosity is maintained, especially at high operating temperatures. In this regard, any measurement of sheared viscosity needs to be made at 80 - 100C, usually 100C. Certainly not at ~40C as performed in the article. There are plenty of good oils available as far as viscosity retention is concerned and if a synthetic oil were better in this respect it would likely have more to do with the blenders ability to use 'better' Viscosity Index Improvers in an expensive synthetic base than would usually have to be used in inexpensive conventional oils.

Perhaps the strongest case for using a MC oil vs. a pass car oil is that current PCMOs are heavily friction modified to enhance fuel economy. The friction modifiers in these oils may result in a reduction in the coefficient of friction in the MC's wet clutch that can lead to clutch slipping or related less than ideal clutch operation and resulting shifting issues. There actually is a motorcycle wet clutch friction test for motor oils, JASO T 904-98. If all oils marketed as suitable for MCs had to pass that test it would be truly meaningful. Of course not all MCs use wet clutches so for some makes/models this test would not be significant.

All else being equal, MC's are typically more severe on engine oils that are automobile/light truck engines. Many MC engines do rev much higher, run hotter and shear oil quicker than auto engines, so a 'better' may be desirable, and no one knows better than the bike OEM what the minimum oil requirements are. But the OEM can't be expected to test every available oil to determine which are ok or otherwise. So they promote what they know is suitable and of course can make a few bucks on as a service part. Certainly a typical low viscosity, fuel efficient oil (5W-20, 5W-30 & 10W-30) is unlikely to suffice for most motorcycles. The SAE grades most likely to be specified/required are higher viscosity oils such as; 5W-40, 5W-50,10W-40, 10W-50, 10W-60, 15W-40, 15W-50 or 20W-50. These higher vis oils also are less likely to contain friction modifiers since the 40, 50 and 60 grades will not achieve fuel economy status. But as these heavier grades fall out of favour for auto use, oil blenders are less likely to have non-friction modified additives available with which to blend MC oils. Consequently more and more 'so-called' MC oils will be nothing more than re-branded PCMOs. Some have been so for years!

Some of the reasons MC oils are more costly than PCMOs has only to do with economies of scale. Smaller volumes, unique packaging and labels, less efficient distribution and higher per unit marketing costs all help move up the cost. And MC dealers cannot operate on the low margins that mass merchandisers and automotive retailers are willing to accept for commodities.

Regards,
 
#25 ·
For all of ya'll that have problems finding the oil you want, This MIGHT be good news to you. Walmart will be putting in bike specific sections in thier automotive section, what will be in this section I don't know but maybe some sugestions to your local wally world would help! I'm lucky NO auto stores or motorcycle dealerships anywhere near me sell Mobile 1 MX4T which is what I plan to use in my Daytona, But I do have a EXXON Mobile refinery near the house, that has a retail shop where I can buy it, and at much less then I'm seeing people pay in this thread!
 
#26 ·
I am using the Purolator Pure One PL14610 with no problems :cool: I have been using Castrol GTX 20-50 in my KLR 600 since 1985. NO PROBLEMS. If spending a great deal of cash for oil makes you feel like you are making your bike happy; go for it. I know it will make your dealer happy.
















i :cool: :cool:
 
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