Triumphrat

Brooksie · 10-05-2006, 08:13 PM

With all the debate about a big, bigger, biggest Daytona in the fantasy pipeline, why doesn't Triumph race MotoGP or WSB? I know, I know, they are focused on building great bikes for the street, but so do Japanese companies. I know, I know, Triumph doesn't have the budget, but where does little ol' Ducati come up with the money? Seems like a lot excuses to keep all the money made, when they should make a REALLY HOT 800cc Daytona with tons of nuts, USB forks, top rate brakes/suspension that could be used in MotoGP. You don't think that wouldn't sell like hotcakes in Europe? Consumer price issues? How about exclusivity, like the various Ducati/Agusta high end stuff? They could offer an 800 SS for regular driving, get about 130/150hp out of it and also put a limited edition out with all the stuff that gets into the new 800cc MotoGP class. The 675 shows Triumph can build 'em (although they have a hard time getting into the (yawn) AMA events. Fire away!!!

Redslope · 10-06-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

On 2006-10-05 18:13, Brooksie wrote:
With all the debate about a big, bigger, biggest Daytona in the fantasy pipeline, why doesn't Triumph race MotoGP or WSB?

I know, I know, they are focused on building great bikes for the street

I know, I know, Triumph doesn't have the budget, but where does little ol' Ducati come up with the money

You pretty much answered your own question, but as for Ducati, consider that they are selling their flagship for $32,000 USD. That's more than triple what a new liter Daytona sold for. Considering all of the parts on a 999 that are nicer and more expensive than on a liter daytona, that justifies maybe, maybe an extra $5000 in price. The remaining $15,000 is an ego tax. A "look at my stylie bike" tax. A poser tax, if you will.
Ducati is selling a lot of air. A lot of cachet. A lot of fluff. A lot of ego. With all of that money for nothing, they can afford a pretty nice racing program.
Hinckley is a new company, fighting for their lives. They just recently started up, made huge investments in design, manufacture, distribution, etc, and with the limited knowledge of business that I have, I'm sure they'll be in the red for a long time while they catch up, and try to pay off those start up expenses.
Honda was one of the companies started in the post war reconstruction (and sell cars, and generators, and ATVs and...), Suzuki has a huge car division in addition to motorcycles, Kawasaki is a huge heavy machinery company that happens to make motorcycles as well, and Yamaha is a huge company that makes really good pianos, electronics, guitars, etc, etc. Anyway, they all can afford big racing programs to promote their brands.
I'm frustrated when I walk into a Triumph dealership, and I see maybe one Speed Triple, one Sprint, no Daytonas, and 20 versions of the same bike (Bonneville, Captian America, Speedmaster, etc) all collecting dust.
Earth to Triumph: Make a lot less Captain Americas, and a lot more 675s so your dealerships don't sell out. Anybody who wants to buy one should be able to walk into a dealership, find it in stock, and buy it- you know, like the Japanese companies do. Anybody who thought they wanted to buy a Japanese bike should have the option to see and drive a 675 so they can do the smart thing and buy one.
If Triumph does that a few years running, we might just see a Triumph WSB racing program.

Euro · 10-06-2006, 01:19 PM

FINALLY! I'm not the only person who thinks Triumph is wasting time, money, and energy building 5 different cruiser style bikes.

doodledog · 10-06-2006, 01:22 PM

I think that the production bikes are what its all about, I look at a V5 honda and see a racer through and through, they then make the Blade to look like it but its just marketing, yea I would like to see Triumph racing but only cos its Brit, not because it is relevent to my bike, yes I know about development being passed to the road bikes but I like the fact my bike is road biased with some real world performance, not a watered down GP bike

Nickwiz · 10-06-2006, 07:10 PM

I don't fit on true race reps! Can't actualy ride em without looking riduculous. Bad enough on my old classics the BSA in particular must've been designed in an age when nutrition was poor! and everyone was small!

SCCTrim · 10-06-2006, 09:19 PM

Racing doesnt make money.....period.

....look what happened to Aprilia

Brooksie · 10-07-2006, 09:58 AM

Great stuff! It just seems like there would be buyers for a 15K Daytona that was a race rep bike, and it would probably kill Ducati in sales and lay the ground work for a racing team, perhaps a privateer with some corporate backing?

bradtx · 10-07-2006, 03:52 PM

Brooksie, It just ain't gonna happen. Why? I seriously doubt it's in any short term budget planning at Hinkley.

I don't know how Ducati convinced the FIM to change the WSB rules to include 1K cc twins in the first place. Outdated Desmo valve trains and ladder frames welded up by chain smoking Italians don't automatically make a racebike.

When Honda used the RC51 to take advantage of what Ducati hath wrought their engine development alone was over a quarter mil. (A low, low figure I think.) Getiing a triple to 230-250 BHP will cost as much.

Triumph, like BMW are better served, for now anyway by leaving their big toes firmly stuck in the tepid waters of marque racing.

Nick, Those race replicas are gettin' smaller every year, eh?

Brad

Tomsk · 10-07-2006, 05:13 PM

Hi Brooksie, I would love to see Triumph racing (I know there are privateers on the 675) but I would love to see a Triumph factory race team. If Triumph won WSB I reckon sales of reps would go through the roof. Many of the brits I speak to have jap bikes but would like to see a british bike and rider back on top (we are just a bit coy when it comes to wanting to win!). I don't think the factory has the "stones" needed to back a race team, loosing is a risk they won't take. I don't belive money is an issue, come on Triumph grow a pair and get out there and race to win! Leon haslam and James Toesland on a factory Triumphs in WSB for 2008! live the dream

[ This message was edited by: Tomsk on 2006-10-07 15:23 ]

Wolf · 10-08-2006, 05:09 AM

I think you need to look at two major issues Triumph has to see why they don't race a factory team - firstly they simply don't need to - every other marque lost sales last year - Triumph went up by nearly 30% - they sell every bike they can make and there is a waiting list for things like the 675 (but you can bet there wont be in 07 as they will stop making so many Americas etc and make lots more 675s now they know how popular they are - don't forget when they announced it most people said it would never be better than an R6 or a CBR)

Secondly racing costs mega money - a GP team runs to millions and millions of $ and gets zero returns - sure there is prestige to winning but in reality Honda sales did not dip when Rossi won for Yamaha and Yamaha sales did not rise.. Everyone on this forum obviously does not buy their bikes based on who wins MotoGP or Superbike because we all ride a marque that is not even in the race. It's a shame SBK refused the 675 a place in WSS because that would have been a great site but it would have been a factory backed private team I'm sure.

In the UK we have some fun to look forward to next year - a one make 675 challenge with 32 identical bikes racing - much like the Speed Triple challenge from a few years back. All private teams but it'll be great racing and will cost Triumph nothing but get them huge publicity (in the UK at least)