Triumphrat

GrandPoohBah · 06-11-2006, 11:09 PM

Hello to all,
A few days ago, I dropped this bike on its right side into the flower bed -- I was just moving it around in the driveway and I leaned it over and it got away from me so I don't even have any lurid stories to tell.

But now...
It will only run on full choke; even when fully warm, it dies as soon as I turn the choke off. The 'idle' is very ragged -- surging to 3000 rpm then dropping back. With the choke on, I can keep it running by blipping the throttle but it's not rideable. The behavior is classic vacuum leak, but I've checked all the usual suspects and can't see anything wrong. I've drained the float bowls but it made no difference. Is there anything in the venting system or rollover solenoid that could be causing it to run like this? It acts the same with the tank on or off.

Thanks,
Patrick Cherry
Ventura, CA
:???:

daytonacharlie · 06-12-2006, 08:52 AM

Patrick,
There is no roll over solenoid on the Daytona and you've probably already checked to be sure the 3 vacuum caps on top of the carbs are still there in addition to the vacuum line and that the vacuum line is properly attached to the back of the petcock. I've gone so far as to install small hose clamps on both ends of my vacuum line to make sure it stays on tight.

But if all that checks out OK then I'd check to see if the carbs have come loose from the rubber intake boots between the back of the engine block and the carbs. If they have that would certainly explain your problem. Just loosen all four clamps then re-seat the carbs into the boots and re-tighten.

Hope that does it, good luck,
daytonacharlie

[ This message was edited by: daytonacharlie on 2006-06-12 07:12 ]

bradtx · 06-12-2006, 10:16 AM

Patrick, First...I know nothing about the D1200, but years ago I had a similar problem on a bike with a vacuum operated petcock. The hose somehow became pinched and there just wasn't enough fuel to the carbs. It happened overnight and my (little at the time) son had his rent-a-halo glowing bright.

Brad

tealetm · 06-12-2006, 11:05 AM

I've had the same probme on the 95 S3- it was a pinched vacuum line @ the back of petcock.

But, seeing it was a drop related thing- I'd tend to go with daytonacharlie's prediction for the intake manifolds.

I assume your idle screw didn't get damaged/turned?

Nickwiz · 06-12-2006, 04:34 PM

Poop in the tank getting chucked about then sucked into the lines and partialy clogging the filters. Thats my prediction if there was no other real damage.

GrandPoohBah · 06-19-2006, 12:11 PM

Reporting back...My schedule pretty much limits me to weekends for working on this so progress is slow.

I couldn't figure out how to quote multiple replies in a single post so I'll just respond to each in turn.

DaytonaCharlie & Brad: The vacuum caps are secure and in place. The vacuum line to the petcock was intact and secure at both ends. The carb boots looked OK but I loosened and them and reset the carbs just to be sure.

Travis: Idle screw is OK; I dropped it on the right side.

Nickwiz: The gas flows freely in the 'prime' position and 'on' when vacuum is applied. I thought maybe the tank vent was plugged and that was keeping the gas from flowing but it's OK.

After checking all the above I started it again. No change.

.

Then I noticed the exhaust note sounded like it was missing. I pulled all four plugs (checked OK) and ensured the high tension leads were secure to the plugs and coils.

Reassembled, tried again; no change.

Then I pulled the low voltage leads to the right coil (cylinders 2-3) while it was running; no change. Cylinders 2 and 3 weren't firing. Pulling the leads to left coil (1-4) killed the engine immediately.

I swapped the coils left to right (repositioned the plug leads), crimped the low voltage leads a little, and tried again. Now it runs almost OK.

The idle is a little ragged but it will continue running at 1100 rpm or so with no choke. At idle, the exhaust note sounds 'flat', like a Ducati, as if one cylinder is not firing. There is a *very* slight stumble, barely noticeable, immediately off idle when the throttle is blipped quickly. Once above idle, it runs smoothly and pulls well. A few runs up and down the street suggest it is running fine except for the questionable exhaust note. This bike is 100% stock so I'm not sure if that is how it's supposed to sound.

Right now it still has the original 2-3 coil firing cylinders 1-4, and vice versa. I'll just ride it and see how it feels.

One of the motorcycle writers -- can't remember which one -- once said "I've fixed a lot of carburetor problems with a new battery." So it goes.

Thanks to all,
Patrick Cherry
Ventura, CA

daytonacharlie · 06-19-2006, 02:14 PM

GPB,
I replaced the coils on my '96 D12 at around 30,000 miles but I think age has more to do with it than mileage. I've seen a lot of coils go bad on older (T3) Daytonas. The symptoms you describe would be consistent with a fried coil. The weird thing is that it began after the drop on it's side. Can't explain that.

When my coils went bad it was subtle and gradual so I kept checking the fueling system, plugs, and vacuum until I accidentally discovered the coil was arcing to the bottom of the tank at low rpm. Replacing them (best to do both at the same time) cured my problem immediately.
Sounds like you've already been through everything else it could be.

If you decide to replace the coils (recommended) I bought the exact same parts for mine from Nology Engineering "clicky" for about 1/2 of what my dealer wanted to charge.
part no. 152 001 070
ProFire PFC-06D (0.6 Ohm) dual high tension tower

dc

GrandPoohBah · 06-26-2006, 05:13 PM

Reporting back V. 2.0

Purchased Nology coils and wires. Not much difference. The bike still needs full choke to run and still surges. Pulling the low-tension lead to 2-3 coil results in *slight* degrade in idle but it still runs. Pulling lead to 1-4 coil kills the bike.
Running with the tank off, I noticed a nice strong vacuum signal from the tube which connects from #3 carb to the petcock. However, when that tube was open to atmosphere, the bike continued to run the same -- suggesting to me there is another vacuum leak someplace I haven't found yet? The other vacuum caps are tight and in good shape.
This is doubly frustrating because we just moved and my workshop is not yet set up. I have my basic hand tools but most of my diagnostic stuff and the bike bench are buried in the boxes sompelace. In addition, there are so many things to be done in the new place that motorcycle repair doesn't get allocated a lot of time. Maybe I can make some progress over the Independence Day weekend (4 days in a row WooHoo!).

Thanks,
Patrick Cherry
Ventura, CA