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955 Fuse Box Burning

38K views 86 replies 15 participants last post by  max548 
#1 ·
2006 Daytona 955i

In June 2011 my Regulator/Rectifier failed and was replaced by a Triumph original part.

in March 2012 the Regulator/Rectifier failed again and was replaced under warranty by another Triumph original part.

In April 2013 the Regulator/Rectifier failed again and was replaced by an Electrexworld RR99.

In May 2013 one of the main fuses melted and I was told that one phase of the generator was putting out about 95 volts. Stator replaced and separate 30A fuse installed by-passing (I think) the ignition fuse.

I've now checked the fuse box and both 30A fuses are completely melted. The repair shop which replaced the stator is baffled as to why the fuses are still overheating.

Any ideas please?
 
#2 ·
Bro, Go to the main page and click on the Speed Triple forum and scroll down to the thread Charging System Diagnostics - Rectifier/Regulator upgrade by DEcosse, that will explain everything. I'd send you there directly with the link but I haven't evolved that far on the computer yet. Don't worry the problem with your bike isn't that big of a deal.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the replies chaps. After breaking down on the continent, replacing a few regulators and a stator, and still burning through the fuse box, it seems to me that there is a LOT of current going through the ignition wiring!



As you can see, the ignition fuse has burnt right through the fuse box, and the battery fuse is completely melted.

I've got the bike booked into a main dealer on Friday to try to sort this out once and for all. I'll let you know the outcome.
 
#16 ·
Don't go to a dealer

As stated by others do not go a dealer THEY WILL ONLY FIT OEM PARTS AND CHARGE YOU A FORTUNE. THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU NEED. DO DEcosse's Mod it works. If you don't have the time/ knowledge to do it find someone who can its not that difficult and much much cheaper.
 
#8 ·
Not for nothing bro but did you happen to read thru DEcosse's thread on charging system diagnostics and what should be done to once and for all end this problem? I'm not sure taking it to a dealer is the right direction to go in, meaning i'm worried your going to end up spending a ton of money and they are just going to replace everything with the same OEM stuff that is doomed to fail again. DEcosse's fix is the way you want to go in believe me and cheaper. BTW, my fuse box looked exactly like yours does.
 
#9 ·
Most dealers are going to tell you you will need to replace the main harness - the Fuse Box is not available as separate part.
So your options will be to install external Fuse Holders for those circuits (Main Fuse and Charging circuit), buy an aftermarket Fuse Panel to replace the whole thing, or get a used Triumph harness (from pretty much any model) and swap over the Fuse Panel or indeed swap the whole harness from a compatible Daytona.
The first is probably the simplest way to go.
Then you need to find the source of the problem! It might well be the Regulator but diagnostics will have done to determine the exact source of the issue.
It is not necessarily more current than normal - these are both high current circuits to begin with; when there is a high resistance contact, that generates heat and the result is it gets very hot and melts/burns the plastic (in Fuse and holder) as opposed to blowing the fuse (which it would have to do for over-current). The problem is once that high-resistance is created it exacerbates as the parts gets hotter, making the problem run away. All this happening without blowing the actual Fuse element!
So its important to bypass all those original connection points - even the wire itself is probably highly oxidized as a result of the high heat and will need to be cut back to a suitable point.

If not replacing the Fuse Panel, this is what I would do:
1) Eliminate the Fuse 2 position - wire the output of the R/R directly to the battery eliminating the OEM 4-way connector circuit; connect the negative directly to battery -ve and the positive output via 30A fuse* directly to the battery positive
*It is REALLY important that a high quality Fuse Holder is used and the connections to it are STELLAR. Minimum 12ga wires, 10 is better.
2) Eliminate the OEM Fuse 3 position - this is the main system fuse from battery; currently one side of the Fuse comes directly from Battery +ve: run a new externally fused 10ga wire from battery positive to the common node of Fuses 1, 2, 3 & 4 (which is the opposite side of Fuse 3)
Same rules apply for importance of the quality of connections on this new bypass circuit.

Both fuses will be 30A.

That will re-establish the circuit connectivity functionally.
Then you need to proceed carefully to see if there are prime movers (like the R/R) which caused the initial problem. This may have been resolved simply by the new bypasses (given that R/R already replaced) but important to proceed cautiously.

 
#11 ·
Most dealers are going to tell you you will need to replace the main harness - the Fuse Box is not available as separate part.
Thanks for all that information DEcosse. You were dead right - I took your recommendations into the dealer and asked them to try to fix the bike using them, but they refused and said that on safety grounds they would have to replace the wiring harness. At first I refused, but I don't have time to work on the bike myself so told them to go ahead. That was over a fortnight ago and no sign of the bike yet!
 
#13 ·
OK, this is getting ridiculous! As I posted previously:

2006 Daytona 955i

* June 2011 - Regulator/Rectifier replaced (Triumph)
* March 2012 - Regulator/Rectifier replaced again under warranty (Triumph).
* April 2013 - Regulator/Rectifier replaced again (Electrexworld RR99).
* May 2013 - Bike broke down on arrival in Germany. Brought back to UK on recovery truck and holiday cancelled :( Stator replaced.
* October 2013 (26,000 miles) - New wiring harness (Triumph) and Regulator/Rectifier (Triumph) fitted by Triumph main dealer due to burnt out fuse box.
* April 2014 (26,650 miles) - After travelling 400 miles to catch ferry to Germany, Regulator/Rectifier failed again, putting out over 18 volts and boiling battery. Brought back on recovery truck again and holiday cancelled :(

I can't travel anywhere on this bike without the electrics failing! I can't see what can be causing the regulator/rectifiers to keep failing? What can I ask the Triumph dealer to do?
 
#14 ·
I suppose what I really need to find out is whether I've just had REALLY bad luck, and the next voltage regulator MIGHT be OK, or whether there's something really wrong with my bike. I now feel I daren't ride it any further than pushing distance from my home.

I previously had a 2002 Daytona and the voltage regulator also went on that, but was ok when replaced.
 
#15 ·
Called Triumph factory today for advice as my main dealer is closed on Mondays. They suggested checking the battery condition and generator output again to ensure the voltage regulator is not being overloaded. I assume the dealer did that 600 miles ago!
 
#17 ·
Hi PaulM, thanks for the advice, but I had the repair done by the main Triumph dealer in October as I wanted it fixed once and for all so I could have some confidence in the bike :rolleyes:

I paid over £1,000 (USD 1,700) to have a new wiring harness and voltage regulator fitted. 650 miles later bike is dead again :( So it's a warranty issue now and have to go back to dealer.

Surely with a new wiring harness I shouldn't need any wiring mods?
 
#18 · (Edited)
opps did not notice an old thread but get mods done

Surely with a new wiring harness I shouldn't need any wiring mods?[/QUOTE]


Yes you do the standard wiring is not really up to the job have the mods done and DO NOT FIT A OEM R/R
This is the most common fault on these bikes.
Have you read this if not do so
http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-tri...-diagnostics-rectifier-regulator-upgrade.html

Edit advice still stands stay away from dealer
 
#21 ·
This is manageable !!!!! and it will get fixed. As hard as it may be, you really need to trust DEcosse, his tutorial. It might be a bit over whelming at first....especially if wiring is not your acumen like mine.....however after you digest everything you'll find that you or another trustworthy auto/moto electrician/repair facility can do it. Probably a car radio guy could carry this out routinely. The hardest part for me was the soldering, it takes a quality solderer, practice and patience.
This is the poster child example why replacing the harness is not is solution...your back at square one right now. Hopefully the dealer will work with you and follow DEcosses tutorial, replace the OEM R/R w/ MOSFET technology or a Compufire R/R.
You might at this point negotiate a refund from the dealer if he refuses to at least do the simple 30 amp inline by-pass along with a new MOSFET or Compufire R/R. There's a lot of room for negotiation now and no doubt the dealer will tire of chasing it's tail w/ this problem. I'm surprised they didn't at least, maybe they did, install the Triumph OEM R/R wire bundle upgrade kit.
If it were me, I would 1st find a qualified auto electrician who can carry out the tutorial, 2nd... get an estimate...3rd... go back to the dealer and work out a refund for the labor and OEM R/R....
I've gone thru 3 R/Rs so far, I haven't even rode my Daytona more than a couple hundred miles....the original OEM that came w/ the bike was bad. I installed a new Ricks Hot Shot MOSFET technology R/R along with the by pass mod, but accidentally trapped the wire leads to stator under other wires coming off the battery neg terminal. The result caused the rectifier wires to melt/short to the negative terminal plate destroying the R/R. Bought a cheap ProCom/Electrosport R/R that lasted a few hours, smoked and self destructed. So I'm back with another Ricks (MOSFET) R/R so far so good.....you'll get it fixed, no worries!
 
#25 ·
So I'm back with another Ricks (MOSFET) R/R so far so good.....you'll get it fixed, no worries!
Glad for you.

Off the topic a bit, I remember you raving about how steady the handling was at 130 MPH - it stuck in my mind ever since. I'm just curious,
where the heck were you able to do that?! I mean it was certainly good to hear, but I don't think I've had mine over 80 yet. :rolleyes: Too
busy searching for pot holes and deep cracks in the road, I guess.
 
#22 ·
At this point you are looking at replacement harness again, since dealer has no capability to replace the fuse panel
Then, they can either:
A) get you back to OEM config
Or
B) install the retrofit from 1050 model S3 which is the MOSFET r/r and uses the same plug & play cable in both bikes (since the 1050 R/R and Daytona use same connectors)

If A only then go ahead & upgrade on your own nickel but do NOT stick with another OEM Daytona R/R
They also need to ensure the stator is good

If spending your own money to upgrade the R/R the best choice is the Compufire 55402 Series Regulator

Good luck!


Sent from Motorcycle.com App
 
#23 ·
Thanks guys. I'm going to print all of these comments and of course DEcosse's tutorial and get the dealer to read it. It does look bad for Triumph though if their main dealer can't fix the electrical problems and I'm having to rely on an internet forum for advice!

Before moving to Triumphs I had three Kawasaki ZZR1100's, all with 90,000 to 100,000 miles on and never had any problems. Difficult to understand why the Daytona is so problematic.
 
#24 ·
.. It does look bad for Triumph though if their main dealer can't fix the electrical problems and I'm having to rely on an internet forum for advice!...
Interesting to note that I was recommending the exact model MOSFET R/R that Triumph ultimately adopted - first for the 675's and then the Speed Triples - but more than a year later from when I first suggested! :D

But since then there is even better still, in form of the Series type R/R
- maybe they'll take note of that advice too! :p

Incidentally when the fusebox melts/burns like that is not the current that does it (well, not by itself anyway) - poor connection of the fuses in that high current circuit causes voltage drop and so power (heat) is dissipated - you can see similar happening OFTEN on the OEM Yazaki stator connector which I prefer to replace with a better quality device.
Once it starts to generate heat, it oxidizes, resistance goes up and problem exacerbates.
It's possible that a harness that has been in stock for at least 8 years at this point (since last Daytona rolled off floor) was potentially already oxidized - or fuses were simply loose fitting.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Question:

By going to the R/R inline 30 amp fuse by-pass direct to battery instead of plugging it into the main harness and pulling the 30 amp fuse in the fuse box, your eliminating the possibility of a fuse box issue as the OP stated????

Thanks Contours,

I'm ordering a Compufire unit this week. I have the Ricks sold for $100 bucks...slightly used. Just need to buy the appropriate connectors.
I placed a big hunk of copper behind the Ricks...why, because I had it and had nothing better to do.......I also used a heat sink paste...it must being doing something as it does get warm. After a few spirited rides the Ricks R/R does get very warm, but not hot. My 999's got hot but never failed. So I hope that my 1st Ricks R/R failed because of my inattention to the way I routed the R/R leads, not because of anything else. The ProCom was just junk and the seller that I purchased it from has eliminated the line..
 
#30 ·
It's in the sticky
A MOSFET is a more reliable regulator vs OEM SCR - however both are SHUNT regulators
This means that they always pull the maximum current the stator can generate & shunts the excess via a parallel bypass circuit - this shunt current is what makes the SCR (OEM TYPE) Regulator get hot - and the heat generated is what destroys it
A MOSFET works by same principle but the shunt device is a MOSFET transistor as opposed to a Bipolar SCR; the MOSFET has extremely low 'on' resistance which means even when conducting high current dissipates low power and hence low heat.
So that device, while operating essentially the same has much improved reliability in its own right ie as a rectifier/regulator device
HOWEVER - the MOSFET r/r is no better for stator reliability than an SCR type - both will make it run at max current
Now - the Series r/r is different because rather than shunting the excess current to regulate the voltage, it only conducts for part of each alternating cycle and effectively disconnects the load from the stator
So now that the r/r is no longer burning that shunt current, the actual generated current (only that demanded by the load from the bike) goes WAY down - about 1/2.
Less current out of stator means the stator no longer gets so hot and so it's reliability goes up considerably


Sent from Motorcycle.com App
 
#31 ·
Now - the Series r/r is different because rather than shunting the excess current to regulate the voltage, it only conducts for part of each alternating cycle and effectively disconnects the load from the stator
So now that the r/r is no longer burning that shunt current, the actual generated current (only that demanded by the load from the bike) goes WAY down - about 1/2.
Less current out of stator means the stator no longer gets so hot and so it's reliability goes up considerably
This is so good to know. If it weren't for the fact that I have a new stator (Rick's) on my parts shelf, I would say I jumped the gun a little. But this stuff is all very intriguing to me. In the end I am probably a better electrician than I am a mechanic. That being said, I am going to check my wiring before I take another ride next week. (A whole lotta rain this week).
 
#32 · (Edited)
I had this exact same problem back in Dec. last year. My RR tested no good and luckily I had a spare FH020 ready in case of a failure in the Sprint.
I tested the stator to be good and began the the direct wiring to the battery with fuse fuse as per DeCosse's recommendations.
This worked well and charging voltages etc. came right up to spec. However the #2 fuse still got really hot.
I disconnected all the cables going to the battery and scoured tham all back to bright metal then smeared in dielectric grease before reconnecting firmly.
Now all is good a gold. CHECK THOSE CONNECTORS!!!!
 

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#33 ·
I like what DEcosse had to say about the Compufire but I think Ill stick with what I have, FHO12 until it craps out. Ill probably regret saying this but its been 4 yrs. now with it and its still fine. But I did have to put a new stator in last year, but ill chalk that up to wear & tear cause it had 60k+ on it ?
 
#35 ·
..... I think Ill stick with what I have, FHO12 until it craps out. .... But I did have to put a new stator in last year...
See that's where you're (maybe?) missing the whole point of the Series R/R:
your FH012 is unlikely to fail (ever!), they are extremely robust;
You will lose another stator (hopefully not!) before that R/R fails
But a Series Design R/R would have prevented that stator failure - and may prevent the next one.
Again, the Compufire recommendation is not because its a more reliable regulator module in itself - it's because it gives you a more reliable stator into the bargain and THAT is the most relevant feature of it.
 
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