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Daytona Deliberations For owners and riders of Daytona 900, 955, 1000 & 1200

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Old 03-21-2006, 08:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hello, I love my new 955, but the exhaust is terrible. So, I've been looking into the new options. I would love to see the SSSA more, so either a high mount or underseat. The underseat being 3 times the $$ makes me wonder if you get that much more ZOOM out of it. Any of you go fast types tried both? I can't find any HP numbers on wolf's website.

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Old 03-21-2006, 10:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I have nothing to back this up so it is only my opinion. I doubt there is any performance gain with one over the other. If anything the high pipe may yield a little more power and better response due to less bends....maybe a little lower CG as well.
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The under seat pipe gives a 14 bhp gain. The Triumph off road high pipe gives around 7 bhp gain. The Wolf high level slip on (now Trident www.trident-exhausts.com) gives around 8 bhp

So yes, the under seat gives much better power than anything else but it is a lot more money so it's up to you if the looks and power are worth it.

If you go high level then again go with the Wolf/Trident rather than the TOR - more power, better sound and better made - just check out the comments TechmanBD and Rino have made recently when they got theirs last month...

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Old 03-22-2006, 05:39 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Let us see the dyno charts then. It stands to reason that the fewer bends, the greater the power and most dyno charts that I have seen support this belief. In fact, the Triumph aftermarket high pipe makes less power than the Triumph aftermarket low pipe.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
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One more thing. Wolf cannot supply a new tune to optimize their pipe so for any gains you will have to add a Power Commander or better yet, Tune Boy. Tune Boy is probably the best as it doesn't require an additional box taking up what little under seat storage these bikes have.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Hi billindenver, I had the TOR low mount cf pipe fitted with the map as part of an insurance deal. Rode it last night for the 1st since I was hit.

What a difference a free breathing pipe makes. Better acceleration across the board and far more responsive to the throttle. Sounds great as well. Strangely the bike felt much more composed on downshifts which I really liked. I haven't really checked out the top end yet but don't anticipate a huge difference.

If I had the money I would have gone with the Wolf under seat after toying with Blueflame and Quill, perhaps I will when the rest of my damages are paid.

Question:
What would the Wolf under seat be like with the TOR map? I don't really want to fit a power commander etc.

The point is that based on the differences I observed whichever pipe you choose the difference over the stock will be noticeable and the bike will feel and sound better.
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Great info. I'll probably ride the 955 for a year and put on something. I am partial to the TOR stainless steel pipe. Looks great, seems like it does what the TOR silencers on my Bonneville did: let the bike breathe. Thanks!
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Old 03-23-2006, 03:18 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Ok, anyone wants a dyno graph of stock, v TOR V Wolf under seat just drop me an email and I'll send it across (no idea how to post it here) - the dyno of all 3 was done on the same bike, same dyno and was done by Arno (t5net.com site as was) so is totally independent of us

Secondly, if I have to explain one more time why bends in a pipe do not effect power (if done right) I'll scream - suffice it to say the dyno proves that bends are not an issue and why would Ducati (916,999 etc) Yamaha (R1) Honda (CBR6 CBR1000) and now Kawasaki (ZX10) all use bendy under seat pipes on their bikes which all make more power than the models with normal exhausts..

With regard to tune - we specifically developed the pipe to work with the Triumph high pipe tune - that way no one needs a PC3 or even a tune boy and everyone has access to the tune from their dealer.

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Old 03-23-2006, 09:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Bends are one factor among many. Gas flow is a complicated science. A well R&D'd system with a couple more bends can easily produce more peak HP than a straighter system that is poorly designed in other respects. I won't even go so far as to say that similar systems for the same bike from the same manufacturer will have an obvious correlation between "total bendage" and horsepower. It depends on what you are designing the system for; top end above all else, or smooth, broad power, or low-end grunt.

The fact that the potential adverse affects of bends are easy to understand does not mean that the number of bends is the central characteristic by which all exhaust systems should be judged. There's a lot more to it than that.

The velocity of gasses in an exhaust system would be governed by the Euler equations, shown at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_equations. But outside the combustion chamber, the pressures are probably constant enough that we can treat the gasses as incompressible. That means the Navier-Stokes equations are the best for predicting the motion of the gas. You can take a look at them at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navier-Stokes_equations. Of course, before you calculate the velocity of the gas in each segment of the exhaust, you need to decide what velocity will give the best performance across the rev range of the engine. Oh, and it's not steady flow in the header; it's pulsed flow.

Now, if you can do all this in your head and decide at a glance which exhaust will give better HP, I'm sure there are a lot of companies that would be happy to save on R&D expenses by simplying hiring you to eyeball their developmental models! :-D kit:
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Old 03-23-2006, 11:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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personally I have the wolf (trident) cf high pipe and it is amazing. Cost less than tor and is better quality. It shows the swingarm better than tor, I compared with a buddy's and we both agree wolf looks and sounds better. Also the triumph offroad tune works for the wolf pipe. There is no better options for the 955 in my opinion. Talk to wolf and he will give you discount for being a member here on the site. GaryHarmon, Im sorry but have you even experienced a wolf/trident pipe in real life or do you just like to be the guy that says how bad it is from hear say. Just curious. Oh and I have seen the dyno graphs provided by wolf and the member on t595, wolf isn't lying about the power. Talk to him, he is a great guy with great customer service.
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