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Daytona Deliberations For owners and riders of Daytona 900, 955, 1000 & 1200

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Old 08-21-2011, 11:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Grand Prix 125
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Another no start issue

Before anyone busts my chops, I have been doing a good 24 hours worth of research on the forum.
I have been reading ALOT of posts. I have a duc and an Ape this is my first triumph. I bought a '98 Daytona still trying to figure out if its a 955 or t595 gotta run the VIN since its a theft recovery. My ground block is the updated blue one. I have a fresh battery, the fuel pump is pressurizing, I can hear it. I am not getting it to fire. I hooked an obdII reader up and it seems my ECU is not getting power. I have swapped relays out and everything seems to be working except the ECU. I could not find a tip-over sensor, the alarm has been taken off and pins 1and 2 and 3-5 have been bypassed. I hope I dont need a new ECU but if I do not a big problem. My kill switch works I can turn it on and off and you can hear the relay energize each time then when I turn the key off or the kill switch you can hear it de-energize. All fuses are good, I have 9 fuses. I read somewhere about the crankshaft position sensor could cause a no spark but everything leads back to the ECU especially once I hook up the OBDII reader up it does not recognize it. Any help would be greatly appreciated or a link to a post that I might could try. Thank you very much.
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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First, can you qualify what you mean by no start:

It cranks, but does not fire?
It will not crank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymeyer_9 View Post
.... My ground block is the updated blue one.....
Blue does not necessarily mean the latest - the latest has an additional ground wire/lug connected directly off the 'block' to the Battery -ve - that extra ground wire beyond the main lug on the battery, is a better indicator.
But regardless, check it for burning

Old one - blue (cover), yet burnt





Latest type - note the battery wire/lug



Quote:
.... I hooked an obdII reader up and it seems my ECU is not getting power.....
The ECM must be getting power if you hear the Fuel Pump prime - it gets drive to pump relay directly from the ECM

Quote:
...I could not find a tip-over sensor, the alarm has been taken off and pins 1and 2 and 3-5 have been bypassed.
No TOS on your bike
The alarm bypass may be the problem - on your bike only 1 & 2 should be bridged
- to confirm your model - does it have a single strip connector ECM (MC2000) or dual plug connectors (MC1000) ?

If the former, definitely should not have the 3-5 connected - most likely blow fuse 4 if horn button was pressed.

If the latter, the bypass plug would be correct - but also mean that you have an 00-01 model!
(However if you have a ground black, cannot be 00-01)


Quote:
... everything leads back to the ECU especially once I hook up the OBDII reader up it does not recognize it. ....
The diagnostic port has 12V on pin 16 - that comes off Fuse 8, however same Fuse as Main Power Relay & Fuel Pump Relay, so must be good. (since you say Fuel Pump runs, the ECM must be being powered)
Not all OBD readers will work - it should have Audi/VW protocol in order to work. Manually select this if it will not auto-select (assuming it has the VAG COM to begin with)

You need to get to basics & see what is missing, Fuel or Spark.

The fuel pump relay not only supplies the pump, but also the positive voltage to the Coils - the FP relay only turns on initially for 3 secs (to prime) then turns off; when the engine cranks, the CPS pulses then re-initiate the pump relay (and so also supplies the coil voltage)

Pull a coil and insert spark plug & check for spark when cranking;
or before that, try spraying starter fluid into TB's and see if you can attempted fire; if so, look at fuel delivery - if not, pull plug & check for spark

Good Luck!
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
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It cranks but does not fire. it has one long strip connector on top of the ECM
I also remember reading something about the gauges working, are they supposed to cycle through everytime I turn the switch on, if so I see the MPH jump to show it has power other than that the gauges do not go to the max then back to zero.

Last edited by anthonymeyer_9; 08-22-2011 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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That is only for the digital gauges that you get a sweep - does not apply to yours
The speedo is mechanical, so there is nothing 'power' related that can make that move until wheel rotates.
Cut that 3-5 link on your alarm connector - should not be there for your model.

Is your neutral indicator light on (as well as oil light) with ignition on?
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Old 08-22-2011, 02:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yea I just removed the wire, My neutral light is coming on as well as my oil light and check engine light
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Old 08-22-2011, 02:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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So you need to check for fuel/spark as described at end of post 2
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I believe I am getting fuel to my fuel rail because when I pull the lines off when I take the tank off I can hear the pressure bleeding off. I will go and check and see what happens
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Pressure to fuel rail not necessarily the same as fuel in the cylinder!

Note that if you turn ignition on while any of the sensors disconnected (airbox) you may get the MIL light remaining on even after it starts
This will go away within 3 complete warm-up/cool-down cycles however (assuming the problem is no longer active)

Regarding the OBDII reader - was one you were using a multi-vehicle-protocol unit (specifically with VW/Audi capability?)

For best diagnostics, see the EFI tuning section and get yourself equipped with TuneECU
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well I first tried the starting fluid and no dice. So then I removed each coil one at a time and I am not getting any spark on either one. Still had the tank hooked if that matters.

The OBD II reader that I have is the actron one that you can get at AutoZone (the cheapest one).

I attcahed some pictures of the ground block, battery, and fuse block with the alarm bypass.
Attached Thumbnails
Another no start issue-dsc04289.jpg   Another no start issue-dsc04290.jpg   Another no start issue-dsc04291.jpg  
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Have you pulled and inspected your plugs? Are they wet? As DEcosse asked - do they spark?

My 98 sat for a while and I had to clean and gap my plugs. Once I got nice fat sparks it starts on the third crank every time.
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