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Charging System

8K views 27 replies 6 participants last post by  evansdavid73 
#1 ·
I did the upgrade to the charging system that I found on this forum and the fuse holder kept burning out(melting).

I then removed the mod and went back to the standard factory setup however the wiring still gets hot and the fuse gets so hot that it starts melting the plastic of the fuse box.

Any idea what causes this?
 
#3 ·
Get a better fuse-holder and do a better job of the connections - details are in this thread; heat happens when you have poor electrical connections.
Do not use an ATM (mini) fuse; at least ATO/ATC size.
Make sure that your connector at the stator output is also in good shape - that one is tucked up at the top rear left corner of the cam cover.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the replies, I crimped the connections and I got the fuse holder from a mate who is an aircraft electrician so it was a pretty solid fuse holder.

The issue I have is that I have taken the mod out completely and gone back to factory setup but the wires still get hot and the fuse box actually starts melting around fuse 2.

I have a feeling the regulator may be shot so might just replace and see if that resolves the issue.
 
#5 ·
lesterg, Before replacing anything, test first with a VOM. This modification because of the relatively high current demands a soldered connection. Unlike commercial crimpers that compress 360 degrees around the wire strands with great pressure, a DIY crimper just pinchs from two sides.

Brad
 
#6 ·
Okay I eventually got some time to check this out.

Before changing anything I measured battery voltage under the following conditions:
1) Ignition off - 12.2V
2) Ignition on - 11.6V
3) Bike idling - 13.2V
4) Bike revving - 12.6V

I then checked the wiring from the stator to the RR, the plug that joins the wires from the stator to the wires to the RR was completely melted. I cut the wires either side of the plug and found the wires on the RR side were totally rotten(heat seemed to have made them brittle). I then cut the wires on RR side back until they were in good nick.

I did a resistance check on the wires on the stator side. Between all 3 wires there was a virtual short. Between any of the 3 wires and ground of engine or of battery it was open.

I then did a resistance check on the wires on the RR side with the ouptut plug of RR also disconnected. It was open cct between all 3 wires with probes any way around.

I joined the wires from the stator to the wires to the RR using good thick wire and soldered them together.

The output from the RR was at this time was exactly as it comes from the factory with the wires going to the plug and 2 separate wires going into harness etc. I started the bike and felt fuse 2 and within approx 1min could feel it heating up and just kept getting hotter. Fuse 3 by the way remains cool.

I then cut out the plug between the RR output and the harness and implemented the mod using good thick wire, and a new good quality in line fuse holder. I soldered all joints and lugs.

I measured voltage across the battery under following conditions:
1) Bike idling – 14.6V
2) Bike revving – 14.5V
Are above not too high?

However the fuse continues to get hot?
 

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#10 ·
Your new voltage numbers look good; I got good results when I did the mod to mine.
I would determine what that fuse serves and start there. Obviously there is a lot of current passing through that fuse! DEcosse also illustrated for us a better heat sink arrangement for the RR. I plan to do this as well when time permits (or when I remember to).
 
#11 ·
Okay update on this.

I have the charging system mod in place using inline ATO/ATC size fuse.

Wires from Stator to RR get hot and in line fuse gets hot (all connections are soldered.)

I now purchased a new Shindengen FH012AA RR which I got from Yamahea dealer and installed as per the RR upgrade thread.

New voltages at battery terminals
1) Bike idling – 13.8V
2) Bike revving – 14.2V

But fuse and wires from stator to RR still get hot.

As my multimeter can only measure 10A max I decided to replace 30A fuse with lower ratings to ascertain at which point it would actually pop.

20A doesn't pop but 15A does so it seems ampage does not go higher than 20A however the 20A fuse gets very hot very quick.

Please any suggestions welcome.
 
#12 ·
Did you do DEcosse's heatsink upgrade? Very worthwhile given the relatively archaic design of the charging system, at least in terms of how excess current is dealt with.
Heat is power consumed, which is produced by current flow at a given voltage. It (the current) has to be going somewhere. Perhaps try removing all of the fuses except the one(s) needed to run the engine, then do a current check on the wires that are getting hot as you replace the fuses one at a time. This may isolate the particular circuit(s) in question.
I can fire up mine when I get home later this week and see if anything on it gets hot, then let you know.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Thanks for response Rickster.

I did remove fuses to see what difference it made to the heating up of the wires - with fuses 1, 4 and 9 removed the heating seems to go away. Then as replace in order 1 in, then 4 then 9 the heat seems to go up with each fuse replaced.

I didn't add a heatsink but must admit the new RR runs much cooler than the original Triumph OEM model.

In picture attached I see the Stator - RR OEM harness shows 2 connectors, do you know if the connector closest to the stator is inside the stator cover? The connector close to the RR was totally melted so I removed the wires and soldered new good wires in place. I am wondering if the wiring under the stator cover may be damaged, possibly other connector melted as well.

I also want to remove the bike battery and connect my car battery using jumper cables to see if the wiring and fuse still get hot - will report back.
 

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#16 ·
The problem is most definitely in your connections either between components or at the fuses - that is where the voltage drops are originating and that is where the heat is being generated.

Removing your fuses is only reducing the current load and therefor reducing the volt drop in the connections - the combination of which is reducing the heat produced.

There should be a second connector on the stator output - follow the cable up from the stator cover and there should be a connector located at the top-rear-left of the cam cover, behind the engine mount there.
Hard to imagine that a stator would come with 3' of cable attached to it and go continuously all the way up to the R/R :confused:
 
#17 ·
Same problem

I have the same problem on my 2005 955i Daytona. The fuse in no2 slot melts and the wiring gets hot. The dealer fitted new Reg/rec and tested the system and said all was good but still the the no2 fuse melts. Tried the mod (got an electrician to crimp and solder the joints) and still the now modified fuse holder gets hot and melts the fuse...so went back to factory spec.

..oh and Decosse...the cable from my Alternator stator goes straight from the stator to the connector at the rectifier and has been like that since I bought the bike from new. I'm going to get an bike electrician to check out the whole system as the dealers just don't seem to know what they are doing! will keep all informed!!
 
#19 · (Edited)
DEcosse it seems you were correct and it was a connection issue, just not a connection that I would have looked at.

I got some help in from a friend over the weekend and found that the ground connection on top of the block wasn't making optimum contact. Cable direct from battery negative to top of engine.

Loosened the connection, used some sandpaper to clean the lugs and point on block where this connects. Then using a spring washer to help prevent this coming loose tightened it all back in place.

The stator wires and the in line fuse now only get warm. The fuse seems to get a little hotter once the fan kicks in and the extra power is being pulled but not nearly as hot as it was getting.

I think this has now resolved this issue, but will monitor.

On the road again oh it's good to be on the road again ... come on sing it with me Shrek
 
#20 ·
Triumph Oz

I wrote to Triumph Australia about this, as there seems to be a lot of people with the 30 amp fuse issue. Also asked a mate of mine who was a design engineer for Triumph in the UK.

this is the reply I got so far from Triumph Australia

"I have passed this on to Cliff Stovall, our technical manager for comment.
There was a service Bulletin for some Vin’s concerning a wiring earthing block. Cliff will be able to isolate the VIN’s and see if your bike was in the effected range"

so looks like there is a problem...again I will keep on it and keep you all posted!
 
#22 ·
....There was a service Bulletin for some Vin’s concerning a wiring earthing block. Cliff will be able to isolate the VIN’s and see if your bike was in the effected range"...
Should wait to see what comes back - but the 'earthing block' issue I suspect most likely refers to the very well known problem of exactly that descriptor on the T595 Daytonas.

But perhaps also sounds similar to what lesterg describes.
 
#23 ·
My bike always seemed a bit lumpy at lowspeed/revs going between traffic, and I always just assumed this was the nature of the beast.

Now it seems smooth, revs are more even etc. Don't know if this is due to the charging system mod, the new RR or the bad earth that has now been fixed but must admit I am now even more in love with this machine than before.
 
#24 ·
lesterg, That's the type of rideability improvement that was typically reported WRT the first gen D955i's earth block fix.

I haven't had time to sit down and study the schematic to learn why only fuse two (or the wiring mod's inline fuse) would be effected, but with a few others reporting a similar problem your trouble shooting is going to make smiles world wide. :D

Thanks again for reporting on the fix.

Brad
 
#26 ·
Having a hard time figuring out the mechanism there:
- not saying it didn't fix it - trying to deduce how that affected it :confused:

The ONLY things that use engine as a ground return path are the starter and the spark plugs - the starter obviously uses a significant current but only when starting - the coils/plugs, not so much (although clearly the potential difference could be significant).

The stator should be physically isolated from the engine so there is not return current going on there

i.e. the ONLY current flowing through the engine ground connector when bike is running, is the spark-plug return current.

 
#27 · (Edited)
2200 kilometers or 1400 miles since the FH010 mod (found it hard to get the FH012AA), and my mini fuse as supplied in the Eastern Beaver kit has started going brown from the heat. I will try cleaning the bikes main earth connection first cos its probably the easiest thing to try. Then will try a standard size fuse holder if fuse still getting hot. (any suggestions on one of these btw?) All my connections for the mod were crimped, then soldered as well. Not sure if my bike is pullling too much current from the battery as I haven't checked this yet, my charging voltage is just over 14V.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Charging and fuse melting

Had an auto electrician look at my bike...given up on dealer!!

After spending a fortune on new Reg Rec and trying various mods including the ones on here, finally bit the bullet and found an auto electrician who is a bike nut too!!

He rewired a few bits and pieces and now the bike is running like a charm with no issues with fuses or heat, even the reg rec is running cooler (oem component too!!). I'll take some pics of his mods and post on here soon, but basically from what he said, the conclusion is that the fuse holder on the main harness is not rated for 30amps but only for 15, hence it causes the wiring, fuse holder etc to heat up due to high resistance. The fuse doesn't blow because the current is fine and there are no spikes to cause it to blow. The wiring and connectors from the alternator to the reg/rec and then from reg/rec to earth and battery are basically all too small in diameter.

pics of mods to follow...and you will be in awe at the size of the 30amp fuse he fitted!!
 

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