Triumphrat

Fixed_Ops

Hey guys....as I write this I'm somewhere between dispondant and flat out pissed. Was just doing a 'final' check on my 2000 Daytona before firing it up after swapping in a 1999 Speed Triple motor (I converted to a street fighter and didn't need to power of the original Daytona engine and would have been too costly to rebuild) when followed the Triumph manual's recommendations for torquing engine mount bolts....and my torquewrench read improperly on the bottom left mount bolt and I cracked the engine case....I'm now the proud owner of the giant paperweight

Any ideas where I can find a replacement engine (just the complete basic engine - don't need FI, coolers, etc.) for a cost-effective price? I've been checking Ebay but nothing for under $1000 there and I've got so much into the conversion at this point I only have about $500 to spend. Need Help?!!! If anyone knows any salvage yards or private owners selling a complete engine units (99-01 as my bike is a 2000, build date 8/99), please let me know....thanks.

Matt

DEcosse

Did you break the mount off/crack it or ????

Haven't considered just getting welded? Drop the motor out and take it to a good pro - they should be able to take care of it I would expect.
Worth a shot!
Make sure you do the left side bolts first then install appropriate sized spacer shim on right if required.

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T'Rat.net BOTM November 2009

Fixed_Ops

DEcosse - thanks for the thought ....the case cracked just inside of where the rear engine mount is located (inboard side of the mount, facing the 'center' of the cases. The crack runs from the base of the case, vertically, all the way up to the top of the case (I'd estimate about 6 inches +/-) and I'm not sure that a weld in this area won't cause more stress? I'm sure it's worth a try if you believe so but the question is whether it can even be welded at all since I think that the cases on this motor are sand-cast aluminum.

Does anybody know if you can weld cast-aluminum cases without causing 'other' issues? It's an easy job to drop the engine out but just don't want to be riding somewhere on a back road and have the engine case let go at the top of 3rd gear or something...

Equally as consterning is the prospect of having to swap my entire rotating assembly over into another set of cases....

As an aside, the 'original' (Daytona) engine that was in the bike has a weeping head gasket (#3 cylinder) but no apparent valve scoring or head warpage. Before I consider doing the head gasket, though, I'll have to unbutton the head and check the sleeves b/c when I took the airbox apart I found a LOT of sandy debris on the 'clean' side of the airbox stuck in filter oil...obviously from a poorly maintained foam filter and I'm not sure if any of that crap ever made it's way into the combustion chambers, although I'd have to expect so. This is a main reason I didn't rebuild the original engine to begin with.....I dunno.

Anybody know any private engine builders who could do a quality job of checking over my original engine for less than a full arm & a leg? North Brunswick, NJ area if you can recommend anyone. Thanks again, to all, in advance....

DEcosse

Biggest problem with an engine rebuild is the cost of the gaskets alone is HUGE on these motors before you even get into other components & labour.

Post up a pic of the damage.

Thinking on your crack situation some more, it sounds more like you didn't have the shim spacer in the right side (or even the left side one) ?
Only way I could think that would crack is that you are effectvely applying tensile force on those engine mounts on the opposite sides, as opposed to compressive force from simply over-tightening the engine mounting bolt? (You would effectively be jacking the mounts apart from each other)
I know it's too late to save this one - just want to make sure of the root cause so it doesn't happen again next time!

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T'Rat.net BOTM November 2009

Prairie Rat

Hey Fixed

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate mishap. Would a 1997 motor work? PM me

Robcampbelljr

let me know

bradtx

Matt, I asked a friend of mine who happens to be a master, nuclear certified welder and yes cast aluminum can be welded. The catch is it takes special equipment not available (very expensive) to most welders and requires using a patch on at least two surfaces. The practical answer is no. He also made mention, similar to DEcosse's that while cast aluminum can take a great deal of compression force, it doesn't deal with spreading forces well at all.

Back when shims were used just for chainline adjustment in mild steel cradle frames this type of failure was, for all practical reasons, non existant. Once engines became a stressed member in aluminum frames the shims not only optimized chainline alingment they became an important stressed member of the frame.

While a major setback, the upside is it's better to fail on the stand than on the road. Triumph's pricing policy on gaskets is crazy...makes a used engine look good and now you've two possibilities.

Brad

Fixed_Ops

Brad - thanks for checking on the welding....I was afraid it would be too in depth to be done easily but was hoping that perhaps i might be able to pull the engine and lay a solid weld down (promise to get you guys some pics posted up of the actual crack at some point tomorrow or early Monday (the bike is at the garage at work and I'm not sure I can access it on the weekend). Regardless, it doesn't sound like welding is the way to go.

As I think DEcosse had noted earlier, my bigger concern is why the case cracked in the first place? At the time I heard the fatal pop-pop-pop-crack noise, I only had about 38Nm of torque into the bolt.
I don't have my shop manual with me but the pattern, as I recall was tighten the left side bolts to 30Nm (starting at head bolt, then front engine mount the rear engine mount) and then the right side bolts to 30Nm (same patter), then move back to the left and tighten to 80Nm and check for excess clearance on the right side. I was in the process and had already done the first 2 mounts at 80Nm on the left side when the engine case let go in the rear...again, with comparatively little torque (38Nm) to the bolt. Now I'm stumped about how to ensure that I don't pop the next engine case as well? Should I start with shims on the left side? The manual only states to use shims on the right side and only after the left side bolts have been tightened and excessive clearance has been determined? Am I missing something here?

Like I said, cautionary tale for everyone else but I'm still scared to trash another engine using the manuals tightening regimen and I'm tempted just to torque them to what 'feels' right, use loc-tite on them and watch them before/after each ride....thoughts or opinions? Thanks again.

Also - anyone who has a line on an engine, please PM me (I PM'd you back, Rob) so that I can try to sort the powertrain replacement as soon as possible. Thanks.

Matt

Fixed_Ops

Hey guys - just to bring a little bit of cheer to my miserable posts of engine case doom, here are a couple pics of the bike in near complete form....about to be torn down again, lol. In the second pic, you can see the work I've done on the nose fairing - I cut it down so it just 'wraps' the headlamps now (was full of road-rash before, so no loss) and I made a custom lexan mini-windscreen using heavy gauge wire as a 'frame' to hold it in place....hopefully you find it kinda neat....now I just need to find a new heart for my beast....

Matt

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Prairie Rat

Always interesting to see what other people come up with! Great idea. Kinda RS'ish

What are the mirrors off of ?

And to let you know I was surfing the rat net found this post about the 4th gear thing and wanted to check the serial number and low and behold found a weld on the engine case of the first Daytona I purchased. I removed the broken piece of fairing and Shazam there it was. Found the camera so I will take pictures now. Had a little bubble of oil on it too.: