Triumphrat

roger.alli · 03-25-2009, 12:18 AM

Just thought I would share this with everyone.

I've owned this bike from new, a 1997 T595. (It is one of the very early models that had a complete frame recall as well as 4/6 gear sieze, and a host of other warrenty issues.) I don't do many miles on it, just 18000 kM in 12 years. It is just a toy for me. I do the odd track day here in Sydney, as I used to road race in my youth, and still like to wring it out.

So, at the track last week, I was pulling max rpm in 2nd, coming onto a straight when "BANG". I got the clutch in pretty quick but from the sound and immediate loss of power, knew this would not be pretty.

On strip down, the balance shaft is snapped like a carrot. Its neeedle roller bearings broken, lots of damage to the casings, damage to the crank, b/shaft drive gear etc, and damage to 2 rods. Its a write off..

New engine required

So, is this a common occurance with Hinkleys tripples???

I actually love this bike. It pulls from way down low making it easy to ride without constant grear shifts, but when needed it will rev as hard as my old Hondas... I just never broke one of those..

Roger

bradtx · 03-26-2009, 10:28 AM

Roger, This is the first balance shaft failure I've heard of in a 955i engine, tho' I'm aware other brands have failed, it's a rare break overall.

You might search for some of DEcosse's (forum member) info and pics regarding a '02> D955i engine into the T595/T509 chassis. The later generation engine is light years ahead, more power on top and still pulls well from down low.

While it's a sad note that brought you here, welcome to the forum.

Brad

roger.alli · 03-26-2009, 09:30 PM

Hi Brad,

I've never ever head of a balance shaft breaking before, but it obviously happens. Pity it picked my bike...

I have been lurking here for a bit to get a bit of info on these engines. I found this post by DEcosse on T595 engine upgrades to 955i versions. (BTW DEcosse certainly seems to be the guru on this triple and all its variations.)

Quote:

All the 955cc Triple FI engines from 97 thru current - S3, Tiger, Daytona, Sprint & even 1050 Speed Triples will fit in the frame. The differences become various ancillary changes and the ECM system & associated tune.

The Daytona motors have higher hp at the possible expense of some mid-range torque which the S3's favour and the motors have shot-peened cranks & rods.

By 98, the 4th gear should be resolved - if you search on here you can find the exact engine number for worry-free.
Sprag clutch can still be a problem on 98 T595's though.

If you go with a 955i motor 99-01, you'd be better off just using the head it comes with - inproved exhaust cam for better mid-range. Throttle bodies & air bypass control also improved for better low rpm control & response, so if you can get the complete intake go for that too.

You may need to custom program the early ECM 1000 in the T595 with Tuneboy to have it run with a good tune. Tunes are not directly swappable between the earlier model MC2000 ECM & the later MC1000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradtx
... Likely best to get a '02 and later Daytona 955i engine if you can get the ECU and it's harness. The '02 and later engines will also require an external voltage regulator ....

Need a few more pieces than that Brad ......
If you get a late 02+ motor, much more extensive swap (although the motor itself bolts right in) but significantly more hp. But you will need wiring harness, ECM, airbox, headers, exhaust, h2o cooling system, oil cooler, rear fender/battery box, brake rearset, instruments & regulator/rectifier from the late model too.

That info kinda made me look to put a 97-99 engine in as it means minimum fuss.

I've actullay found a 98 T595 engine at a breakers, but its head at least is in pretty poor shape with rusty valve guides and seats.. The bottom half may be ok so I will try to come to an arrangement with the breaker..

Thanks for the welcome.

Roger

bradtx · 03-27-2009, 03:13 AM

Roger, The magic number for the factory 4th gear upgrade is engine number 57946. Plus side is you'll have a cylinder head to tinker with.

While things are apart and you may've done all this anyway, Triumph also offered a 'racing' camshaft kit for the '97 and '98s that basically is the '99 and later cams and sprockets. IIRC the '97-'98 exhaust cam is five degrees retarded to the '99 and later D955i engines. The '99> primary tubes and collector was also redesigned to allow more ground clearance on right hand turns.

Brad

roger.alli · 03-29-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradtx

Roger, The magic number for the factory 4th gear upgrade is engine number 57946. Brad

Thanks again Brad.. Very useful info. Attached is pics of my new/old engine from the breakers. Its' serial number is L067678, which means it has the 4th gear mod, which means I dont have to install my gear sets, which means I dont have to split the crank cases. I dont really want to go that deep if I dont have too.. My aim right now is to get the bike up and running again without spending too much money on it. I wont be removing/grinding the valves etc, and I will take it on faith for now that the bottom end of my replacement engine is ok.

You can see the corrosion on the valve guides and stems...Not great, so I will fit my old head on it, which I know is good to go..

(I had an exhaust cam fitted to my head around 99, I think they called it a "stage 3" cam at the time, I presume this is the one you are refering to..)

I will take the head off it tonight for a look see.

BTW I haven't done this kind of work for well over 12 years, so it is becoming a bit of fun project having spanners in my hands again...

bradtx · 03-30-2009, 01:03 AM

"(I had an exhaust cam fitted to my head around 99, I think they called it a "stage 3" cam at the time, I presume this is the one you are refering to..)" --roger.alli

Quite possibly. The work always goes better when you can put a positive spin to it...have fun.

Brad

roger.alli · 04-01-2009, 11:06 PM

So, here is a pic of my new (from the breakers) engine, and my 2 cylinder heads. The head in the foreground is my old head which I am going to reuse. I have cleaned it up as best I can, but as I don't have valve lifters that is about as good as I can do. I've cleaned all the crud off the mating surfaces and removed all the loose carbon deposits.

I've poured some solvent (kero) into the inlet/ehaust ports to see if there were any obvious leaks between the valve and seats. They all seem to be good.

The clyinder liners all appear to be good (to my eye at least). I dont want to remove the liners and measure everything, so again I will just hope for the best...

Now I can start the re-assembly process.

BTW, That piece of green cardboard with 3 holes in it, cost A$150.00!! Triumph sure know how to charge for parts...

Roger.

bradtx · 04-02-2009, 09:35 AM

Roger, One assembly item that's been debated is the resealing of the cylinder liners following head removal. It's a step in the service manual, but there seems to be some that haven't resealed them and hadn't any problems.

Assembly is good, completion even better. I just got my older Mustang buttoned up last night following a cage fight to the death restabbing the transmission. Best medicine for cuts and bruises is a happily burbling engine!

Brad

roger.alli · 04-03-2009, 12:33 AM

Brad,

Yes, my Hanes manual goes into some detail about the need to ensure the liners are not disturbed once the head is off, in case the seal between the liners and crankcase broken. They suggest putting temporary clamps in place using the head bolt holes.

I was very careful handeling the block not to put any pressure on the liners, especially when rotating the crank.. It is after all only an RTV silocone seal.. Im pretty sure it will be fine..

To remove/reseal the liners is a pretty big deal (if you don't have a liner removal tool.) The crankcases need to be split, the crank lifted out of the way, and a tool fabricated to pull the liner from underneath. Not a 5 minute job...

Hanes say if you are careful not to disturb the liners you should be ok..

Head is on, and cams all lined up.. Note the cable ties to prevent the chain jumping a tooth... A tip I learned here.. works great.

Roger

bradtx · 04-03-2009, 08:28 AM

Roger, I have the Triumph manual. The Haynes manual, if like their other manuals I've used provide useful practical tips.

Very nice looking garage, BTW.

Brad