Triumphrat

joe1028 · 09-12-2009, 12:18 PM

hi, first is there a good maintenance manual that has values so you can actually troubleshoot the electrical ignition system as the triumph manual is worthless..not carbs or plugs ...bike was running poorly and now will barely start misses equally and then dies. i ck'd the coils and had some odd readings, primary .6 ohms, but secondary is way high at 4.9m ohms and then in only one direction as if there is a diode wired in ? i would not think both coils went bad and the bike seems to miss equally as if it is something common to both...pickup has about .5k ohms and not shorted to ground ,tpi has 2k ohms and does vary with throttle......thanks for the time/help , joe

Gregger · 09-13-2009, 12:15 AM

You are right. Can't see both coils failing at the same time. Possible but not probable. How do you know it isn't the carbs? Have you checked the small hidden fuel filter between the carbs for dirt. Have you tried to drain some fuel from each of the drains under the carb bowls to make sure you have good flow to the carbs.

What about a vacuum leak. Have you check the intake rubbers between the carbs and intake manifolds for small cracks especially behind the clamps. Are the vacuum plugs in good shape and not missing. Is the vacuum line to your AI system still ok?

joe1028 · 09-13-2009, 12:25 PM

hi gregger, plenty of fuel in bowl ..bike was running ok last week i tuned it once i found the bad diaphrgam. now it starts- misses EQUALLY out of both mufflers and then dies, will not accell..ck'd plugs look good but spark looks weak. no vac leaks,i removed the air injector valve as diaphragm was ruptured..ck'd pickup coil res .5 k ohms which sounds ok per another post..should heat soak and recheck... but the coils seem really odd. 4mega ohms and only in one direction?? thought someone had some info about a good manual i could buy to actually troubleshoot the ignition system correctly.. swapping parts is a stupid(and expensive) way to repair a machine! resistance ck's should be available for a most items of this system...anyhow thanks for the post hopefully someone else has info on a good repair manual as the triumph manual is really poor..

Verde · 09-14-2009, 03:59 AM

Since you just had to dive into it, there's a good chance it's something there causing your problems and not both coils going bad at the same time, as you already suspect to be unlikely. I know you've checked a lot of the little things, but make sure to take it slow and cover all the easy stuff before getting in too deep on the hard stuff. Battery terminals, connectors, etc. Edit: Something else I've noticed getting more and more mention here is the pick-up coil air gap(this falls into the after checking all the easy stuff category). Manual calls for .8 to 1.2mm gap. but when the gap is towards the bigger spec it's causing some people grief. If you get to that point, dial that in at the .8mm spec.

Haynes manual has treated me well so far. Haven't had to do too much diagnostic stuff beyond some charging system problems. Most my electrical and wrenching escapades have been on a voluntary basis. According to Haynes the primary resistance should be ~6 ohms, secondary ~15 K-Ohms, and spark plug cap resistance ~5 K-ohms, all measured at 20 degrees C.

Your TPS should not cause any drastic problems, but here's a link on how to check that widget. TPS Adjustment. I could not get mine to match their numbers, but it was generally in the same ball park(blue/yellow=higher closed/lower WOT, and black yellow=lower closed/higher WOT)

Good luck and let us know what the culprit turns out to be.

joe1028 · 09-15-2009, 03:39 AM

well to fix a problem you need to troubleshoot it and i went over the easy items before posting-first thing was gas in bowls and battery connection... since there are no values for each component it seems most people just shotgun and replace until they get lucky- i did ck wiring, connectors,safety switches and kill switch, power. .....i ck'd the pickup gap and it is about .034 under 1mm(.040), and 500 ohms res.( one post had 588 ohms on a new one so i would think it is good). the coils really have me puzzled as i have never seen open secondaries on both in one direction and 4meg in the other!! i removed screws holding coils on to remove and try a few 3ohm coils i had.....i tried them and it started and ran ok! i hooked up the stock rt coil and it ran ok...i hooked up the left stock coil and it ran ok..i put the bolts in the coils and it started to miss and quit again..i removed the lt coil bolts and it ran ok..i moved the lh coil up to the clip nuts on the frame and it started to miss!! moved it away and it ran ok...i did not see any arcing but for some reason it is causing it to miss!! how strange...first i get no secondary reading on either of these gill coils and now i get a miss when the coil is bolted down, must be a internal short to the mount bushings?? or a open on the secondary (no reading) shorting to the frame when close...we will see what a few .6ohm coils will do in a few days........have a good one, joe

Verde · 09-15-2009, 04:32 AM

Jesus man, I think I've had a few too many tonight to figure out exactly what you're saying, but it sounds like you've got a pretty decent idea of how to go about it. I'll butt out for the most part unless I have any epiphanies. What I will say is I lost my faith in the triumph wiring at some point and ended up gutting most of it. Good luck and keep us posted.

Nigle · 09-26-2009, 09:09 AM

Joe: I sure hope you find the problem because I'm having the exact same symptoms with my 05 America. I've checked everything you have with no results. I'm concluding it's either the ignition pick up ($70 part) or the ignitor ($700 part). There was a previous post about Procom coming out with an aftermarket ignitor (CDI) for the America. I checked with them at the beginning of Sept and was told to check back in 4 - 6 weeks. Some with ignitor problems in this vintage bike have had Triumph replace the part even though the bike is out of warranty. I've never been that lucky. I'm reluctant to take it to a dealer fearing they will just start throwing parts at it until the problem is fixed. I can do that.

As far as manuals go I've got both the factory and Haynes. The factory manual sucks. Tells you how to replace parts but not how to diagnose problems. The Haynes manual is better. I just got one for both my America and Trophy.