Triumphrat

FattRat · 11-21-2005

Okay, bumped the air pressure of my front tire up from 34 psi to 38 psi at 70F (rear is at 40 psi).

I went for a fourty mile ride to get me a good cigar, my impression with the increased air up front:

Bike feels more nimble...... almost TOO nimble at around-town speeds.

Front-end didn't wag, wiggle, or shake when I took my hands off the handlebars. I did this in several different modes, to include different gears & different speeds, and different rates of engine braking. The little Bonnie' tracked straight & true...... so in my glee, and to celebrate my excitement, I dropped her down a gear, goosed it, and began to ascend a small hill with RR tracks up top...............

JEEZ! Danm near lost her to a wiggle, wanted to give me a head shake!?!?!?!?!
Turns out the surface up top where the RailRoad tracks lie, is...... well, IT AIN'T A SMOOTH PIECE OF SURFACE!!!!

So what'er gonna do? On the way home, I sought out irregular surfaces to get a feel for what she wants to do. This is what I concluded:
It feels like a harder tire with it's increased air pressure, is almost a bit TOO skittish for the Hagon progressive springs and the 20 weight fluid called for 'em. I wanna take her out on some high speed country sweepers and see what she does before I back off on the prescribed 38 psi.

Actually, this is kinda fun; hope I'm learning some'n from it all!

fastfred · 11-21-2005

After racing in the Thruxton series this year with some success, and having a street Thruxton with some spirited mountain rides, here is my experience.

I have raced without a steering damper on the race bike all year. I found that if I used too much pressure on the bars the bike could shake, relax pressure and it would stop shaking. So I have used the shake as a signal, relax. This works on the street or the track, but if a damper fixes your issues, then use it.

Riding relaxed without a lot of input, use your knees to support your weight, this bike can slide the front, slide the back, or both ends at the same time. When you tighten up the bike will tell you, but of course this applies too any bike. Think about it.

Fred

FattRat · 11-21-2005

(fast)Fred,

I'm thinking that this little Bonneville of mine is a blessing in disguise. I have already begun to think EXACTLY what you have now confirmed for me. I've been thinking that the Bonnie' might be telegraphing things (my bad habits) to me that were HIDDEN by the very street worthy BMW Roadster I just put 60,000 miles on.

For instance, I've noticed that my old habit of 'PULLING' one side of the handlebar, as opposed to 'PUSHING' the other side, as in "counter" steering....... has now become a technique that can be likened to a push/pull fight! The result on the Bonnie' has been a feeling of my frame flexing in the middle. (I've got Hagons up front & Hagon Nitros in the rear, so I don't think it's mis-matched damping)

This weekend, I rode Hwy 1 by exercising a technique of pointing my chin up, into, and through an upcoming turn. I then began to exaggerate jutting my chin AND pointing my chest into the turns. I noticed that my body language was actually pushing my inside arm into a position of pushing the handlebar, and that the resulting counter-steering pushed me through the turns with minimal effort!!!!

In short, my worst habit is a tendency to stiff-arm my bike. The ONLY time I don't is when I'm riding aggressively up a steep hill..... as I tend to lean forward with bent arms and use more body language than ANY other time on the bike. DOWNHILL, my habits are laughably conspicuous!

The timing of your post is perfect, and I look forward to more tid-bits of wisdom/instruction that I might benefit from. By the way, is this YOUR bike?

[ This message was edited by: FattRat on 2005-11-21 22:12 ]

Pete_Twizz · 11-22-2005

kwajazz,
Please feel free to argue. The content of my post reflects my knowledge, experience and opinion, but is by no means definitive.
Everyones input is useful. It is almost guaranteed that some of us will have different ideas.

Pete.

kwajazz · 11-22-2005

Absolutely Pete! All is cool.

I cant argue much on the physics of the motorcycle. I've read about most of it, but my knowledge is slim. Most of my understanding is seat of the pants and a collection of "gut feelings" collected over the past 35 years that sits down inside somewhere way below cognitive thought.

The basis of my opinion lies in the areas where we all end up sooner or later, where perfect or near perfect conditions and settings cease to exist. I.e. bad road, or inadvertently forgot to check air pressure etc. Those dampers can act like a bit of insurance that actually helps out before an accident as opposed to afterwards. Honestly, they kinda look cool.

FattRat · 11-22-2005

Okay.......

Say I'm stupid enough to part with $300.00 of my money for a steering damper (and I ain't rich, I assure you!).

If and when I install it on my BonnieBlack, is there a worst case scenario that can create problems or cause a safety issue?

I expect that it will likely remain in it's least amount of damping mode, and like the rest of the bike..... checked, cleaned, poked, pulled, prodded, and inspected on a regular basis.

Is there a reason why I SHOULDN'T put one on my bike????

fastfred · 11-22-2005

fattrat,

135 is my bike.

Fred

FattRat · 11-23-2005

Fred,
A small group of acquaintances signed up for and participated in a CLASS session a few months ago, and commented about the "awesome sounding" Triumph that "spanked" them out on the track.

Steve (Silver FZ1) took this picture and sent it to me after attending the CLASS. He was impressed, to say the least...... both with the day of instruction, and your riding.

In fact he recently posted an email to us, encouraging people to sign up and attend again. I REALLY need to be taught how to ride, and would have to attend quite a few sessions before it sinks into my dense (old) head. I was between bikes, and fully intended to go last time, but my Sprint RS was just too tempting a Siren on the public roads to keep..... I sold it right before the session.

[ This message was edited by: FattRat on 2005-11-23 07:46 ]

Pete_Twizz · 11-23-2005

Worst case scenario:

I used to work for an outfit which (after we parted) began to produce motorcycle steering dampers. They were very expensive, fully adjustable, titanium bodied items. The 'whizz-bang' motorcycle press raved about them, until the first time one seized up and chucked the rider down the tarmac.

Simple is good. If something can go wrong, sooner or later it will.

The balance is between the benefits and the risks. If the only benefit is that it looks cool, there needs to be virtually no risk.

Pete.

Tarmac · 11-23-2005

Quote:

I've had that happen once so violently at Texas World Speedway coming off the banking that it shook my feet off the pegs. Wheww!!! It ain't fun.

Yeah, I remember that bump..not good. I also remember on my 1st lap seeing the worlds largest wall of hay bales when you come back into the infield....

On topic: As a point of reference CCS, WERA and AMA all require a steering damper on all race bikes. That dosn't mean you need one on your Thruxton or to race Thruxton Cup (thats in the Vintage series).

I'd say that "over gripping" the bars or locking your elbows could cause a lot of handling problems (as well as arm-pump). You gotta have a firm, but light grip and keep your elbows bent.