Triumphrat

katanaman

g'day all, have just been tinkering with my valves and have a few questions. 1. what clearance are you guys running? 2. are the clearances set hot or cold? 3.what clearance is set from the factory?4. do you put the shims in dry or with a bit of oil under.5 unrelated but are the exhaust and inlet cams the same part number?

my bike was very quiet when new and after a few thousand km i had a service and valves done, now the mech told me when i picked up the bike that he had found the valve clearences to be a bit large and had reshimmed accordingly. as soon as i started the bike i discoverd that it had a lot more valve train noise. this doesn't make sense to me as it should have been quieter if any change at all. now after a few more thousand km i thought i would check out the clearances myself (cold) i had 3 exhaust gaps a little tight and 1 inlet a little tight. i measured up and replaced the shims as req'd only to find my bike is noisier than ever (like an old bevel duke), i took it for a ride and rechecked the gaps only to find the ones i adjusted where now to large. i let the engine cool back to room temp and checked again and***** me the gaps where now back where i set them. can someone please explain how the gap gets larger with a hot engine as this goes against all i have ever been taught about valve adjustment. in addition and not related i also noticed the cam caps that run on the shoulderd journals have wear on the sides as if they where a bit to wide from the factory, anyone else notice this?
thanks and cheers :???:
hope this makes sense to someone and sorry for any crappy speeling i have been trying to sort this out for a while...and am pretty tired now.

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GrandPaulZ

You shouldn't have needed valve tinkering until over 12,000 miles, and then probably minimal.

There is a very exact science to these newfangled shim and bucket arrangements which I hate.

Engine must be STONE COLD, and the calculations exact, with a good caliper / micrometer.

Your dealer's mechanic may not have done you any favors, but if it's in warranty, I'd take it back and complain. The bike should be silky smooth, don't accept any baloney from the shop.

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katanaman

yeah yeah, i didn't post for a lecture! just some info. i have accurate Mic and verniers, have done valves a lot in the past and am an licensed aircraft engineer. i am after any differences in the adjustments of this bike over others. you know, crazy poms and the machines that go with it.
BTW not all valve adjustments/measurements are done on cold engines!
so any answerers to my questions out there?

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vitabrew

I'll try to share my own experiences on the valves as I needed to correct the clearances early on in my bike's life.

1. I made mine on the tight side within recommended spec (near 0.15mm intake and near 0.25mm exhaust.

2. set cold according to the factory manual

3. the factory clearance was far too wide for 5 out of 8 valves (don't remember the actual values), hence the need for the early adjustment at 2,000 miles

4. the manual doesn't specify the need for oiling, but I oiled mine just seemed like common sense to do so, I could be wrong

5. they are different according to the factory manual

I didn't get any more or less noise after correcting the clearances. I did notice a significant improvement on a vibration I was having above 4500 rpm. Hope it helps.

P.S. have no idea why the clearance got larger with a hot engine, I too would expect the opposite

[ This message was edited by: vitabrew on 2005-09-07 19:52 ]

Nochicanes

How about cam walk. Preload the cam freeplay for zero, i.e. move the cam over and recheck clearance to see if the mechanic set most of the clearances too tigh 2K ago and beat the sh!t out of the cam. I've seen that on BMW car heads (same bucket/shim arrangement) where the cam is walking and you're measuring the cam at its most worn and then come back and the cam has taken a different 'set' after the shim change...maybe worth a try with the wear you are seeing....

If that's not it I owe you a beer.......

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jtjansen

Kman mentioned hearing valve train noise,
What is the consensis on when tinkering with valves is necessary? 2000k-12000k doesn't help much.
what am I listening for and how the hell could I hear anything over the D&Ds...

Cornelis

Factory maintenance schedule says 20.000 km or 12.000 miles, but my dealer does it after the first 10.000 km/6000 miles, and every 20.000 km/12.000 miles after. Experience has shown him that this the right approach!

bluesjeans

That's absolutely right.. just ask his acountent..! ;-)

paul

"If they're gullible enough to buy it, sell it to them..!"

katanaman

thanks vitabrew, i have sorted it out a few things with these valve adjustments. Very interesting stuff, after thinking about this gap getting larger when hot i decided to test a theory, i rechecked the clearance cold and as it should be they where still the same, i then removed the shims and buckets, cleaned off all oil from top of valve stem, under bucket, top of bucket and both sides of all shims. i then reinstalled all in the same locations as removed and checked my clearances, now they where all exactly the same as when the engine is hot(larger gap). i then recalculated my clearances, checked the gaps dry then reinstalled with oil under the shims, whacked it back together and went for a ride, all seems well in the world of cam shafts in my engine. now i am not sure if this is an acceptable procedure but it sure worked for me and it also explained the widening gap when hot(thin oil).
nochicanes: next time your in Darwin I'll have an ice cold beer on you :wink:

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GrandPaulZ

Katanaman:

<<yeah yeah, i didn't post for a lecture! just some info.>>

A bit snippy there, all I answered with was info.

<< i have accurate Mic and verniers, have done valves a lot in the past and am an licensed aircraft engineer.>>

I, too, have been at this a while.

<< i am after any differences in the adjustments of this bike over others. you know, crazy poms and the machines that go with it. >>

They ain't so crazy as it turns out.

<<BTW not all valve adjustments/measurements are done on cold engines! >>

Righty-O again, and I am well aware of that. I've owned over 70 bikes in over 35 years, and worked on all of em with the rare exception of the twiddlers that never needed tinkering.
But as I stated, this one needs to be cold.

<<so any answerers to my questions out there?>>

Yep, and you got the right one I see.

Glad your back on two spinning wheels!

Was my original comment correct, that the first adjustment done by your dealer was absolutely unneccessary or quite nearly so?

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