Triumphrat

Mastiff-man · 10-27-2008, 06:47 PM

Does anyone know someone capable of stamping louvers in fenders & side panels???

Mastiff-man · 10-31-2008, 03:26 PM

Am i the only one that thinks louvers would look mean in the bottom part of each fender & side panels???.....Maybe there's still too much Street Rod in me...

I plan on visiting my local auto salvage yard and checking out power steering condensers for oil coolers...Ford products use to use them in the 70's....Has anyone tried to use one, or made one out of an air condit. condenser???

Second; Would using two, one on each side be to much for a stock oil pump, or would it be a good idea to up grade to a high volumn pump???.

Cheers

Woolly · 10-31-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastiff-man

Does anyone know someone capable of stamping louvers in fenders & side panels???

I've got a fly press in my garage, complete with a louver tool, but I'm far to far away to be of any use to you.

El Tejon · 11-04-2008, 04:41 PM

Why do you want to run an oil cooler?

The way a stock Meridian is set up, you'll be cooling the scavenged oil returning to the oil tank. No need.

The timing cover must be modified to put a filter and/or cooler on the pressure side.

Mastiff-man · 11-04-2008, 08:22 PM

Well i can think of any number of reasons to run a cooler, but i'm the first to admit i'm a novice when it comes to motorcycle engines.

First, longer engine life
Second, increase in oil volumn
Third, South Texas Weather

Since it would be on the discharge side, i'm not sure why it wouldn't work...No need to modifiy the timing cover that i can think of...Coolers would be behind side covers next to the air box..71 oif
It's one of the reasons for louvers besides i think they would look good...

Just wondered if a " Morgo" oil pump would be needed...I'm known for over engineering something than under...But that can be just as bad..as in solving one problem but creating another...

Thanks for replying, Cheers

Cafeparts · 11-05-2008, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastiff-man

I plan on visiting my local auto salvage yard and checking out power steering condensers for oil coolers...Ford products use to use them in the 70's....Has anyone tried to use one, or made one out of an air condit. condenser???
Cheers

Been done by many folks for many years. The 1966-'67 500 factory race bikes used Corvair engine oil coolers mounted ahead of the cylinders and plumbed into the return side of the oil circuit. The 1968 500 racers used Volkswagen coolers mounted under the seat area.

Mastiff-man · 11-05-2008, 08:23 AM

Thanks Cafeparts,
I've seen aftermarket oil coolers for the early Triumphs, but wanted to made sure the stock two valve oil pump would maintain enough oil pressure to run two....I understand they also make a four valve pump as well...I have no plans to race one, but oil is the life blood of any engine!! Thanks for the photos, & reply.

Cheers

El Tejon · 11-05-2008, 05:46 PM

1 - I really doubt you'll cook your oil on a street bike unless you're bombing along at WOT for mile and miles and miles in 100°F weather.

2 - The Triumph twin engine uses a dry sump lubrication system. Dry sump systems uses 2 or more oil pumps, typically 1 to pressurize the system and a couple to scavenge the sump, aka crankcase. The Triumph uses the 2 oil pumps in 1 unit. The scavenge side actually pumps air and oil.

The typical after market oil filter and/or cooler is plumbed into the oil return, scavenge, line. OK, the filter at least filters the oil but it is after it has been fed to the engine and "used" which is contrary to common design. It is not on the pressure side.

Cooling the return oil really doesn't offer any benefits that I can see, unless the oil tank is covered by a fairing and/or the engine may be partially shrouded by the fairing. Then I can see a need for a oil cooler in that instance.

The first picture shows that arrangement but that hot cooler is blocking air to the cylinders while the second picture shows oil tanks with cooling fins mounted down low and oil cooler up under the seat behind the hot engine. I can't imagine that would have a great effect in cooling the oil.

Oil will usually run at 190-300°F. I have never seen oil temperatures in a hot street bike above 250°F. A multi-grade syth oil should be the norm for a hot street bike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastiff-man

Thanks Cafeparts,
I've seen aftermarket oil coolers for the early Triumphs, but wanted to made sure the stock two valve oil pump would maintain enough oil pressure to run two....I understand they also make a four valve pump as well...I have no plans to race one, but oil is the life blood of any engine!! Thanks for the photos, & reply.

Cheers

Mastiff-man · 11-06-2008, 05:52 PM

El Tejon,

With all due respect, but you have missed the point....I asked if anyone else had tried using a power steering condenser as an oil cooler, an if the stock pump would supply enough oil pressure to feed them...I'm not worried about cooking the oil, just keeping it as cool as i can.
Another member sent some photos and you felt the need to critique them in a negative manor....Not sure why, but i don't know you..
I cut my teeth on Flat-heads engines, so i do know a thing or two about engines, including how to make them last.....
I've yet to read a post on this board ,or any other that doesn't state that the more oil volumn you have the better it is, and the only reason for it could only be that the oil has a better chance of cooling before returning to the engine..Try finding a stock oil pan on any drag car, yet your only talking about a 1/4 of a mile run...
One of the benefits to a Morgo oil pump is that the oil will stay 15-20 degrees cooler...Why,!!, because it moves the oil in an out of the engine faster, so it has less time to heat to a higher temperature...I don't care what type of engine your talking about, put a oil cooler on it an it is going to last longer, than a stock one...
Surely you know why the Tridents have them...If not it has to do with heat, and the center cylinder not getting enough air flow..
By cooling the oil down they solve the problem to a certain degree.
Just basic 101 engine common sense!!.

Cheers

El Tejon · 11-06-2008, 07:14 PM

mastiff man,

I guess I did miss the point. I don't know what pressure power steering operates at but if it is 100 psi or more, you should be good to go. If it's street cred you want, go the cool cooler route. I dig mod'd vehicles. I really like to see ingenuity at work. We have a couple of local British m/cycle shows locally and some really great stuff comes out of the woodwork. Mine included.

I was trying to make 2 points.

1 - A cooler is not need for normal operation.

2 - The pressure side of the pump, the one that feeds the bearings, is not typically plumbed through oil filters/coolers. So, I believe your question is moot. The scavenge side of the pump will push whatever oil and air it picks up in the sump and through any cooler/filter at pretty low PSI.

I merely commented on the cool pics of the Triumph 500cc race bikes. It was not a negative critique but an observation. That's one of the things I do for a living.

As you point out, in an air cooled engine, oil plays a big part in engine cooling. But the longer oil is in contact with a surface the more heat it can transfer in and out. Moving it quickly over a surface will defeat that purpose. Just like removing the thermostat and not installing as restrictor plate may cause the engine to run hotter than intended.

My customers all have racked up many many miles in the vehicles, 2 & 4 wheeled, I have maintained for them. I am predominately a BI wrench with some exotic stuff thrown in for good measure. If it's 'mercan, I know nothing. But as you imply, engines are engines.

I look back and I see that I have had dirty fingernails for the past 50 years.