Triumphrat

boondoggle · 06-16-2008

Hi everyone!

This is my first post, but that doesn't mean I haven't gained a ton of incredible knowledge from these forums. Up until now the search feature has pretty much done the trick.

So, here's the scoop. I bought my first motorcycle last weekend - it's a 72 Trophy TR6C. Sold my 75 Datsun 280Z to get it.
The Trophy was running OK when I got it but whenever you would turn the handlebars to the right it would rev up, turning left it would almost stall out. After replacing the throttle cable and cleaning the carb it idles way too high when I start it now. Kind of scary high. I don't have a tach but I'd guess maybe at least 2000 RPM. It's leaking gas from the banjo bolt washer too.

Here's what I did.

It came with a bunch of spare parts (along with reprints of the factory service manual, owners manual and a parts catalog) - including a new throttle cable. So yesterday I decided to tank the gas tank and side panels off and replace the throttle cable.

While I had the carb off I went ahead and cleaned it checked the filter in the banjo. Nothing in there so I put it back on nice and snug, replaced everything and started it up. Oh - here's the crappy part - after I cleaned the carb I had it sitting on my toolbox. When I opened one of the drawers the carb fell off and hit the ground pretty hard. The slider is a little snug to get into the chamber but moves freely and doesn't stick. I cleaned the slider with some steel wool while I had it out. I don't remember how freely it moved before but it seemed ok. Before I put everything back on I felt inside the carb and the slider/valve seemed to be as far down as it could go and moving the handlebars didn't seem to make it move either.

Also, when I put the needle back in I put it at the middle position. I couldn't tell which position it was in before I took it off. I tried to make note of it but couldn't tell. I live in Denver, Colorado so altitude may be an issue.

I tried turning the idle screw out about 1.5 turns and it doesn't seem to make any difference. I checked the throttle cable and it seems like it has about as much slack as it's going to get.

Could the leaky banjo washer be causing an air leak making my idle high?

Did the fall warp my carb body? I put it on a flat surface to make sure it wasn't warped by a PO over tightening it.

Should I put the needle in a different position? Would it cause a high idle?

I have the throttle cable adjusted 'all the way out now' meaning more threads are showing on it near the throttle grip section.

Will I damage my bike by starting it at such high RPMS on cold starts?

Any other things I should check? This is my first motorcycle. I love this triumph. I've wanted one since I was a little kid growing up in england back in the early 70s (military parents). I thought I was fairly mechanically inclined after I got the old datsun fixed and running but I can't think of anything else to try on this Trophy.

Here are some pics of my Trophy wife:

http://gallery.mac.com/sballinger#100050

Thanks for your input!

Shawn

boondoggle · 06-16-2008

A couple of things I didn't mention that might clarify some things:

1. It's the stock Amal 930 Carb. I see on british only the have a Amal 600/900 repair kit (which has some new gaskets and washers and such). Is that for a 900 series? As in a 9xx amal carb?

2. I was looking through the parts catalog and realize I should have been referring to the 'throttle valve' instead of slider. It seems like it went all the way down when I was last checking it.

3. How far out can/should I unscrew the throttle stop screw? It was countersunk before, now it's sticking out a little.

4. Dumb question, but how can I check how much oil is in it? The manual says to use the dipstick that came with the toolkit but I don't have a toolkit. I'm afraid to start it, thinking the high revs may damage something.

Dang, I never have been much good with Carbs. My Datsun 240Z had two, my VW Beetle had two. Glad I got a triumph with just one.

I've only ridden it around the block twice. Once when I test drove it. Once when I got it home last week. Dying to get it on the road. MSF classes in July. Figured I'd take this time to 'bond' with my bike. Don't wanna break it though.

boondoggle · 06-17-2008

Took it all back apart and had another look. The throttle valve wasn't inserted/shut all the way. Maybe the needle wasn't all the way down in the jet or something. That spring is a real booger. Throttle valve is actually resting on the throttle screw now. Slides up and down easily too.

Still have the bad fuel leak at the banjo though. Seems worse. And the manifold o-ring seemed big.

Haven't started it up yet. Will put the battery back in and kick it on over after work tomorrow, if the leak isn't too bad, and see if I get a decent idle speed.

Fixed the electrical problems too! Now all flashers, parking and brake lights work. Even got the speedo light working. yay!

While I was in there I noticed the front chain guard tab is broken and could allow the chain guard to rub the chain. Seems like this bike is full of surprises.

Other than that, so long as the idle situation is all sorted out all it'll need is some tires and maybe some front brake pads (and a good fluid flush and fill).

All in due time I suppose. Something to strive for.

Thanks for reading.

OzBloke · 06-17-2008

Boondoggle,
There is a plastic/gauze filter that fits inside the fuel banjo, and it provides a seal between banjo and carb body. There is also a thin fibre washer on the banjo bolt, that seals the bolt head side of the banjo. Make sure both of these are in place, and not split or distorted. Make sure you've got the banjo the right way round - pretty sure it won't fit the wrong way, but check it anyway.

The o-ring on the intake is suppsed to be large in terms of cross-section (not diameter) so it protrudes above the face of the carb flange. When you fit it to the intake manifold, it sits slightly off the manifold, and the o-ring still seals the gap. You should not have carb flange to intake manifold face-to-face metal-to-metal contact, as heat and vibration effects will cause issues with carburation.

Fix the chainguard (or take it off) before you ride the thing. Locking up the rear wheel at 60mph by getting a chainguard caught up in it would not be pretty. MIG/TIG weld, a little grind and a quick spray will be cheap in the big scheme of things....

Don't forget to completely flush the old front brake fluid out when you do the rest of the oils, and lube the speedo gearbox and the swing-arm bushes.

You're already becoming self-sufficient and confident about your ride - something that comes in handy down the road.... Good luck with it, and safe riding.

Tiger Dale · 06-17-2008

The way I check my oil level is:

Put bike on center stand.

Unscrew cap

Insert index finger in hole.

Should be around the middle knuckle.

Don't worry too much about exact height. I like to put enough in to see visibly when I take the cap off but not above the return spout. get a flashlight and you will see what I mean,

I've been redoing a 72 Tr-6R that I bought in October. The PO had parked it in a barn for 35 years so I've had all kinds of issues to work out. Don't hesitate to ask questions.

TD

boondoggle · 06-18-2008

Thanks for the input guys.

Nice TR6R. Any close up pics of how you've got your control cables routed? The cable management on mine was terrible. Cleaned it up pretty well as I've been replacing them.

Front brake fluid OzBloke? I don't think I have anything so fancy as hydraulic brakes on this bike.

Just a squishy front brake cable that's adjusted all the way in. I think the front brake pads are probably worn. Rear stops fine.

Were you in the RAAF OzBloke? I remember learning "Per Ardua Ad Astra" in high school in Kansas. It's on the Kansas state seal only backwards "Ad Astra Per Ardua". Being a USAF brat I picked up a few things like that along the way.

Didn't get to mess with the triumph at all tonight. Ended up taking our sick dog to the vet. One HUGE (and I mean huge) vet bill later and the dog is still sick (got a fever and won't eat, had a bloody nose for a bit) and the vet didn't find anything wrong. My wife feels better though, for now. So do I, I guess. Just hope he pulls through. Poor little guy.

I know... Wrong forum.

Anyhow, looking forward to getting back to fixing up the bike. Much easier to diagnose. Probably cheaper too. All I wanted to do was get down to the hardware store to buy a nylon washer for the banjo. Yep. I lost mine. Nope, the dog didn't swallow it.

Yikes, vet bills aren't nearly as fun as parts bills. What a bummer. Will update as soon as possible. Even a nylon washer sounds expensive right now.

Thanks,
sb

OzBloke · 06-18-2008

Wasn't in the RAAF, but did spend 12 yrs in the Australian Army as a techo. Ended up working with the USAF in Aust, and did a few trips to Lowry AFB in Denver (7 months over there in mid 80's).
Per Ardua Ad Astra was my old high school motto too, and seems to have been particularly relevant to my life ever since (35 years later).

boondoggle · 06-21-2008

So if I lift the seat and unscrew the cap with the big + on it, stick my finger down in there and there isn't any oil on my figure at all, I guess I should add some eh?

I got a Viton o-ring at pep boys (who woulda thought it?) so my banjo bolt isn't leaking anymore. I'd love to fire it up, warm up the engine and give it an oil change, but if the sucker is practically bone dry I guess I don't want to run it much, or at all?

I have 3 quarts of Castrol 20w/50. I'm tempted to pour a little in before firing it up, but am concerned I'm not doing something right and it'll have too much oil - and that's never good.

Guess I could just give it a cold oil change, not as good as a warm one but at least I'd know what I'm working with.

Still haven't tried starting it since resolving my botched up slide valve cleaning job.

Thoughts?

thanks!

boondoggle · 06-21-2008

Hot dog! It fired right up first kick!

Yeah, I went ahead and poured just a bit - about 1/4 quart in. I figured it hadn't leaked any engine oil since I brought it home so it couldn't be in any worse shape.

Oh, it has an oil leak. Just the red stuff is leaking though - and it isn't bad.

Now if I can just get the bike up on the center stand I'll change the oil. Is there some sort of trick to getting it up on the center stand? I'm not ahnuld swchwarnegger but I'm not a wimp, just can't seem to get it up, err..on the stand.

Still has a bit of a fuel drip. Guess I'll have to order the proper banjo bolt washer from britishonly.com. Turning the handlebars only has the slightest affect on it now.

So far every mission I've set out for myself on this bike has been accomplished, so if anyone out there reads this who is thinking about getting a Triumph I say go for it. They're fairly easy and FUN to work on. Such beautiful simplicity. Can't say much for riding it (yet) but I have a fairly good suspicion the fun has yet to begin!

p.s. I pulled the chainguard off. Looks like several weld attempts have been tried in the past. They aren't a cheap part either. Gonna run without it for a bit.