Anyone identify this clutch cable part? - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Main Motorcycle: 1968 Bonneville
 
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Anyone identify this clutch cable part?

Hi guys,

I went to replace my clutch cable today because the outer of the one that was on there was all worn and taped up. Replacement is a Barnett one, and looks to me to match the parts book cable.

However when I went to attach it to the gearbox housing, the thread is much smaller than the old one. You'll see in the attached photo (new cable bottom, old parts above that) that the old one seems to have an extra piece (middle of photo) that was screwed into the gearbox. The cable threaded through this and there is a second small metal part that looks like an adjuster which just sat in the top of the larger piece (no mating thread in the larger part, so it didn't thread in).

Anyway, this brings me to wonder what was this clutch cable arrangement the PO had on the bike? Can anyone identify? Has someone had to drill out the gearbox cover to accept this non-standard part?

Trying to figure out a remedy here. At the moment if I tighten up the clutch mechanism on the new cable, it does sit in place on the gearbox, balanced on the adjustment screw and held in place by the cable. Just seems a little unwise to leave it like this.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 01:58 PM
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Hi Scot,
Not sure what bike you're working on - that would be useful to know.

However, the part that is in the middle of your photo is called a 'clutch cable abutment'. It screws into the outer gearbox cover on a 500 and 650 (probably a 350 as well). The one in your photo looks like the one for a T100 (500cc). The clutch cable has a screw adjuster for some models, e.g. T120 Bonneville but on other bikes, e.g. T100 it doesn't. On the 500 (and probably the 350) there is just a plain metal ferrule crimped on the end of the outer sheath without a screw adjuster and that just sits inside the narrow portion of the abutment. The T120 abutment is shorter and doesn't have a narrowed section but instead has an internal thread where the cable adjuster screws in.
In both cases, the cable outer sheath can't pass all the way through the abutment piece as there's a reduced diameter in the abutment which only lets the cable inner wire pass through. The inner wire then hooks onto the 'clutch lever' (that's what the parts book calls it( that's fixed inside the outer cover.

So really, it depends on what bike you are looking at.

Hope that helps.
Tony

Last edited by tjwood; 05-18-2017 at 02:10 PM. Reason: Added more info
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Tony, thanks for that info. The bike in question is a 1968 Bonneville, though it has a few 1969 parts, and was basically rebuilt by the previous owner. At the very least I know the engine is a '68 T120.

From your comments I went back and looked at the parts book again. I find the abutment listed in the gearbox cover section (photo attached, part number 29), but it looks much shorter than the one I have. That would fit with what I've found when I installed the new cable, because it is shorter and I'm confident it wouldn't have room for the additional length of this abutment.

So do I have the wrong abutment here for a T120? Or perhaps it's two pieces that have become stuck together (certainly looks like one piece to me)?
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 03:57 PM
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Hi Scot,
Yep, that one in your link looks like the one you need for a 1968 engine. Just make sure your engine really is 1968 because 1968 was a 'cusp year' and there are a few oddities that were only done that for year.
Regards
Tony
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Great, I'll get one of those ordered.

Oddities pretty much sums up my bike - though the engine number looks to be squarely in the 1968 bracket and is a T120R. I have little knowledge of its history other than that it's a '69 TR6C frame and a couple of other bits like the front brake that are '69 which would make sense for an engine swap. It seems to have been pretty comprehensively changed to bonneville spec with solid footpegs, peashooters and twin gauges.

Anyway, it's leaving me trying to track down each part's history as I go along!

Thanks for the help - much appreciated.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 05:56 AM
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot68 View Post
The bike in question is a 1968 Bonneville, though it has a few 1969 parts,
At the very least I know the engine is a '68 T120.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot68 View Post
I'll get one of those ordered.
Mmmm ... this is where you could do with the advice of a proper long-time Triumph parts dealer, as opposed to the advice of that well-known long-time Triumph parts dealer, eBay ...

The eBay ad. you linked says the '68 one is "'68 only". Bear in mind a '68 clutch cable is also "'68 only".

Otoh, the '69 "Abutment" - 57-3762 - went on to be used 'til the last Co-op bikes in the early 1980's (and could well have been used on the Harris-made twins). If there's ever going to be difficulties obtaining a new clutch cable, d'you reckon it'll be a one-year-only cable ... or one that'll fit several years ...?

That you've found a 'C'-range (unit 350 and 500) "Abutment" and matching ("shorter") cable, could be a p.o. encountered a shortage of the correct '68 one-year-only parts in the past? Imho, worth at least checking if 57-3762 - and if necessary, a '69-on clutch cable - would fit your bike?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwood View Post
the part that is in the middle of your photo is called a 'clutch cable abutment'.
On the 500 (and probably the 350) there is just a plain metal ferrule crimped on the end of the outer sheath without a screw adjuster and that just sits inside the narrow portion of the abutment.
Yes and no. Yes, it's a 'C'-range (unit 350 and 500) "Abutment"; no, there should be a "Spacer" between the cable end and the Abutment - wide part for the cable end, narrow part to fit in the top of the Abutment. There are two Spacers - "long" and "short"; if you have both, makes clutch cable adjustment much quicker than faffing around with adjusters at both ends of the cable.

Hth.

Regards,

Stuart
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Agreed this would be easier if I could take it to a parts specialist. If the abutment doesn't fit then I may need to just drive the parts out to Classic British Spares, though it's a reasonable drive to get there.

I'm hoping that the gearbox outer casing is 1968. I guess there's a possibility that the '69 casing may fit on a '68 engine in which case the abutment would be different?

I'm holding on to all the old parts in case I need to piece something together. I have what appears to be a correct new 1968 style clutch cable, but if the abutment I've ordered doesn't work out I may need to try to find an exact match for the old cable.

Thanks for the help guys.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 05:36 AM
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot68 View Post
Agreed this would be easier if I could take it to a parts specialist. If the abutment doesn't fit then I may need to just drive the parts out to Classic British Spares, though it's a reasonable drive to get there.
I was more thinking 'phoning or emailing the specialist (CBS?), at least initially. This is what I'd want to check:-

. The eBay picture you linked - CBS's "1968 Only 57-2540 TR6 T120" - is identical to CBS's picture of the '69-on 57-3762:-



. CBS's "1968 Only 57-2540 TR6 T120" pictured part isn't the same as the parts book drawing.

. Real part not looking at all like the parts book drawing isn't unknown; otoh, nearly half-a-century after Meriden made and drew 'em, the parts wholesalers have spent two or three generations cutting the parts inventory by selling the same part under different part numbers.

. A quick call or email to CBS might well find that the only difference between the '68 and '69 parts is the top 'lip' on the latter, better to keep the rubber cover over the cable in place; the original '68 part (number) is "'68 only" because the '69-on part simply superseded it.

. Even if the clutch cable adjuster thread is UNF rather than Cycle (another regular reason for '68-'69 part number changes when the parts are otherwise identical), it'd be better to have the UNF thread used for ever afterwards than the one-year-only Cycle thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot68 View Post
hoping that the gearbox outer casing is 1968.
That your bike had a 350/500 Abutment screwed into it means the gearbox outer casing has a UNC thread, same as the one in both of CBS's Abutments pictures. Unless the guy at CBS has made a blooper with his pictures, either 650 Abutment will fit your bike's gearbox outer casing; I'm just curious what the actual difference/s is/are between 57-2540 and 57-3762 ...

Hth.

Regards,
Code Man likes this.

Stuart

Last edited by StuartMac; 05-21-2017 at 09:11 AM.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Well the replacement clutch abutment arrived, and unfortunately it's not the correct thread for the gearbox casing. I've attached a photo of the new and old side-by-side and you can see the pitch of thread on the new one is shallower than on the old one.

With a set of calipers it looks like the old one is around 15tpi. The outer diameter as measured at the highest point of the thread is approx 0.496", but it seems to taper a little, going up to 0.5" and down to 0.484". The new one is 16tpi and doesn't obviously taper, with an outer diameter at the thread of 0.507".

Does anyone have any idea what thread is on the old one?
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