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Trident T 160 clutch info.

9K views 20 replies 6 participants last post by  johntioc 
#1 · (Edited)
Just got my bobber T160 going, so far all is OK apart from the clutch, got it adjusted OK just turn the big nut by hand, and it seems to disengage OK when static and using the kickstart, but once running it seems OK, b ut cant get it out of first gear, so i am wondering if its likely to be the clutch plate either out of true or something else?

I cant see it being a box indexing badly as i can select gears when engine is not running, and its not been apart, the gear linkage again is OK static, despite it being forward controls, probably will rose joint it soon anyway to eliminate any slop.

So any info on clutches, what plate is best etc, on searching there only seems to be two options, Hyde or Suflex? and any other experience/info would be appreciated.:smile2:
 
#4 ·
how about over adjusting the cable so there is no slack in it or even a little tighter --- just to see if you can then select first - not sure what it would prove though - could still be related to the clutch adjustment or the plate - or the clutch lever pivot distance
 
#5 ·
Sorry! but its now hydraulic, and i have measured the total throw of the ramp movement and its as much if not more than the original (correct) leaver, i have tried more adjustment at the case, as i have retained the original adjuster, but it doesn't seem to make any odds, which is why i am leaning towards the plate being warped or just plain out of true....going to pull apart and have a look at the plate itself.

I wonder has anyone converted back to a multi plate clutch? never had these problems with any of my twins.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Just found some references to clutch plate thickness/wear being a major factor as well, which makes sense as being pretty similar to a car clutch setup they also tend to get heavier as they wear due to the way the spring operates, so i guess its a mandatory strip down to check.
 
#7 ·
Hi,

Just found some references to clutch plate thickness/wear being a major factor as well,
If you found them on Triples On Line ...

If you put "clutch" into the TOL Search, you'll still be reading a month from now. You will also see theories come and go ...

True, the triple clutch was never one of Doug Hele's finest ideas. But nor was clutch plate thickness/wear "a major factor" ten or twenty years ago, nor - if you look in Triple Echo (the TR3OC magazine) back issues - thirty years ago?

I own three triples, one since 1977 and another since 1982. "clutch plate thickness/wear" has never been a "factor", "major" or minor. Because I was one of the earliest members of the TR3OC when it was founded in 1979, I know several triple owners (including the Club founder) who've put over 100,000 miles on a triple; none of them have ever mentioned "clutch plate thickness/wear" being a "factor", "major" or minor.

Note I'm not saying you won't find clutch plate thickness isn't one issue with the clutch on your bike. But, equally, you need to check for all the other potential issues; it equally might be the problem is an accumulation of all the minor things that adversely-affect triple clutches. :( Certainly, I'd want to be very, very, very certain before I used some of the more-radical 'solutions' in those discussions - metal is cheap to remove but expensive to add, as are new or unmolested triple clutch baskets ...

Plus you're operating the clutch cheap and non-standard ...

Regards,
 
#8 ·
So what is considered the best plate for the T160, i can only find ones from Norman Hyde and Surflex, is the std item prone to warping/run out?

As i said the "cheap" non std hydraulic clutch actuator operates the mechanism to the limits, and perhaps slightly beyond, of the std system, so can see no reason to lay any blame there.
 
#10 ·
forgot that you had converted to hydraulic clutch -- I only have experience of one T160 that i rebuilt a year or two past and no longer own -- the clutch was all standard and the adjustment was the worst part of setting up the whole bike -- i only got it to work in an acceptable fashion by setting the adjustments slightly "out of spec" (cant remember the details)-- maybe try setting it up tighter or looser - if only to see if the engagement is better before you strip it out
 
#11 ·
Already tried that i'm afraid, removed the outer cover this afternoon, already found one bodge, however it works, but i always did wonder why i couldn't stop the oil leak from the primary chain tensioner.

It seems somebody had striped out the alloy case thread, and cracked the case as well as there is a weld at the lug, anyway instead of re-sleeving or helicoiling they did a real heath robinson job...captive nut welded to a small plate with a coach bolt as the adjuster, trouble was they just tried to seal the void around the bolt with a couple of fiber washer's, i just hope they haven't got any further into the engine.
 
#12 ·
The more i delve into this motor the more worried i become, managed to cobble a sleave together to stop the oil leaking from the heath robinson primary chain tensoiner, and did a bit of grinding to get the clutch actuator to sit down on its BBs and hopefully gain a little more movement......however i did try the cable and original leaver just to see if i could gain any more disengagement, but its actually worse than the hydraulic setup, despite measuring the leaver movement as a tad more than the hydraulics, but i think by the time you add a little cable stretch, sleeve compression its ends up less.

So the clutch strip is still on, i was a tad worried when i was easily able to slacken the crank primary sprocket nut with little effort, no tab washer either, i am now worried what else i will find.

I am now still convinced that my clutch problems are either a worn or warped plate, and/or the spring is not releasing evenly causing the drag...we shall see tomorrow if i get a chance, and once i can measure the friction plate thickness i will have more to go on.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Maybe a long shot but check the pull rod thrust plate and operating lever for track wear and correct size ball bearings,
(1/4 inch).

People whine about this clutch but it really is simplicity itself to set up & works well.
 
#14 ·
Thanks! but that was one of the first things i did, bearing size make no difference to lift, one thing that is making me think that there is something out of true is that when adjusting the large nut it has a tight spot, this could simply be a the nut itself is not quite true, or something further in is the problem, my money is on the spring or plate.
 
#15 ·
Just got the clutch out and apart, cant find anything that immediately obvious, bearings seem OK, the plate is down to 0.243" which from what ii have read isn't terrible, but i have also read that its better to have a thicker plate due to the way the spring works?

The plate has the number 33273 on it and some other paint mark that i cant make out, its got a little room before the rivets, but i am wondering if this could be causing the drag? if i replace what would be the best option, Hyde sintered plate or Surflex, i have read the Hyde plate is 0.296" and the Surflex is 0.264"

Also would i be better off fitting a radial load clutch bearing and a self centering pulll rod while its apart, not that i want to spend yet more money, but i just want to get this drag problem sorted, will be checking for even release etc, and will also try and check for run out.
 
#16 ·
I relined my clutch plate with new material, bought a conversion from Greece with radial bearing in the actuator + fetherlight Venhill cable and got a light, properly working clutch. It's important to have a spring with orange mark, other colours signify much harder springs.
If your bike still have a kickstart, you could be able to determine what is a cause of your gear change problem, clutch or gearbox.
 
#17 · (Edited)
My spring has no markings, but i suspect its the original, the cause is definitely the clutch dragging, so far all looks OK but i will be checking alignment, found a source of angular load bearing for the thrust, but still looking for the same type for the actuator side, cant see a size on it, anyone know what it is or at least the bearing prefix?

I am also going to purchase a self centering pull rod, still not sure which plate to go for, Hyde or Surflex?
 
#18 ·
Venhill makes a Heavy Duty clutch cable for the T150/T160 under part number T01-3-105T4. This is a copy of the original cable supplied by the factory.

An awful lot of Triple clutch problems (including clutch drag, bearing and pull rod failures) can be traced back to the clutch cable.

Getting the adjustment of the pull rod nut to provide clearance with the bearing is critical for clutch action and the life of the pull rod and bearing. If the outer casing of the clutch cable isn't stiff enough setting, and keeping it right, is problematic.

The outer housings of most after market clutch cables collapse in use. The clutch drags so the natural inclination is to take up the clearance with the lever adjuster. The leads to owners taking up the lost lift cable clearance at the clutch lever.

This negates the required clearance of the big pull rod nut. Now the inner pull rod bearing is under load all the time. It only takes a short time for the bearing to heat up and fail, seize and break the pull rod. The axial load bearing is a good idea, but not necessary if you always have the proper clearance on the big pull rod nut! Doing this is not always possible with aftermarket cables.

There is also a condition where the bearing housings for the gearbox main shaft are not centered on the needle bearing housings for primary rear chain wheel. In its mildest form (under .010") it makes clutch operation dodgy as the plate, mounted on the main shaft, and the clutch housing, mounted on the rear chain wheel are fighting each other. In the worst case, with the two centers out of line as much as .100", it forces the clutch assembly to act as a "universal" joint. In its worse case it wears the clutch plate splines (made out of powdered pressed steel) to wear so bad that they acts like a planetary gear. Total failure of the splines under this condition takes under 1,000 miles.
 
#19 ·
Hi John,

Venhill makes a Heavy Duty clutch cable for the T150/T160
OP has already changed the actuation on his bike to hydraulic ...

There is also a condition where the bearing housings for the gearbox main shaft are not centered on the needle bearing housings for primary rear chain wheel.
You've mentioned this before, but aiui only in connection with early triples? OP has a T160, I've never heard of the shafts problem on a T160, have you?

Regards,
 
#20 ·
I have ordered the Hyde sintered iron plate, as all the info i can find, which is not much, points to them being thicker and cause less drag due to being made with better tolerances, i have also ordered an angular thrust bearing and self aligning pull rod, so once i have set up the clutch and got it all back together i will report the verdict.
 
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