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Meriden/Hinkley Discord

9K views 91 replies 34 participants last post by  Wire-Wheels 
#1 ·
I am possibly relocating from north Georgia to Ocala, Fla. in the next few weeks. While down there last week I checked out all the shops that could handle vintage Triumph work. My first question was whether they had a mechanic that worked on "Meriden" Triumphs, the reply I got was the same from 3 shops, "What's a Meriden Triumph?" I was surprised how many of these so called Triumph mechanics have no idea of the history of the machines they work on. Left me with little confidence in those shops. It really is surprising how much divide there is whether you own a new or vintage Triumph.:frown2:
 
#4 ·
I understand the disconnect from the factory, but from the individual owners it seems strange. I really love the 59-70 model bikes. The Hinkleys, with the exception of the Speed Triple and Street Triple, just do nothing for me and I have no interest in owning one. But I don't bad mouth them just because I own a 70.
 
#5 ·
When Bloor disavowed all of Triumph's past heritage, why did he allow his designers to copy Turner's design features ? To me it just looks like they cashed in on past proven design principles, styling cues etc.

Affordable & reliable bikes in their own way, I still regard them as fake Triumphs to the annoyance of some owners who unwisely asked my opinion.

However, I do like the older 1050 triples & have test ridden a 1050 Speed Triple a few years ago. It sounded really nice but didn't have enough stoke for my liking (at the time) but was a nice enough machine to ride, although I found it slightly twitchy in slow corners due to the short wheelbase.
 
#7 ·
Many owners of the new bikes have no idea of the old bike experience.I dont think many would like to go from the new to the old,but,it is common for people to own at least one of each in my area.The new ones often come on the old bike runs and we all mingle well.Most new owners just cannot fix bikes so it is not an affordable hobby to have these old moneypits.
The new Hinckley T120 looks very much like an old T120 now,so new Triumph is providing bikes to suit the old followers of the marque.
I do know quite a few Hinckley owners and their bikes are serviced at the dealers with the owners not knowing how to do the work.
My own Rocket 111 has always been repaired in my own garage.11 years and just tyres,brake pads,oil and filters.Nothing has broken and needed replacing after 11 years.The new ones can be extremely reliable from my experience with other owners.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I don't know why anyone who owns a Meriden Triumph would expect a modern Triumph shop that probably came into being with the first imports of the Hinckley bikes, to know how to work on them. They don't even know how to work on my '98 T595 Daytona. That's why there are private shops who specialize in the old bikes because they have been working on them for that long or at least apprenticed with an older Triumph mechanic. It's not just vintage Triumphs. I bought a '87 Yamaha SRX 250 into a Yamaha shop for tires(same engine as the dirt XT250) and the owner told me that they really don't want to work on the older bikes. That's what specialty shops are for. This was sometime in the early 2000's. I don't know what type of education one gets in one of those tech schools or even in a factory, but I doubt they teach motorcycle engineering starting from the early days to the present. There are I'm sure, vintage shops, who have no idea how to work on a modern computer controlled bike. Same goes for BMW. Max BMW prides itself in working on the old airheads as well as the modern models, but not all I'll bet. Was Florida ever a bastion for Triumph motorcycles?
 
#11 ·
I see the Hinkley Bonny in the same light as the 'new' Mini, VW Beetle etc. They were/are a styling exercise to cash in on the nostalgia of consumers who remembered these icons from their youth and are now old enough to have the disposable income to buy them. (I would be surprised if these re-runs will have the same impact in 30 - 40 years time!)

Though I am surprised by the amount of younger riders who have taken to the 'new' Bonnys but I believe that has more to do with the current cafe craze than nostalgia.

Like many here, I too test rode a couple of Hinkleys (2007 & 2009 Thruxton) and was left uninspired. Not surprisingly, the street/speed triple was much more enjoyable and I believe will be a future classic.

As mentioned by GrandPaulZ, the bastardisation of the logo separates the new Triumph from the old and always has in my mind - chalk and cheese...

So although it's disappointing that a "Triumph" dealer knows nothing about classic bikes, it's hardly surprising. You'll generally find the same for any vehicle make - once a model has become obsolete, very few workshops know (or want to know) anything about them.

I suppose another reason is also that just about every friend of mine that became a mechanic after leaving school, only worked as one for a few years after qualifying, so those that 'cut their teeth' on the 'old stuff' are now working in an office somewhere.
 
#15 ·
I can relate to what you say about mechanics leaving the industry. I worked in Sydney as a bike mechanic during the 60's and 70's. Most of the shops in the 60's were staffed by enthusiasts and were family businesses, such as Jim Eade, Ryans motorcycles, etc. But that changed in the 70's with the Japanese bike invasion.
New bike shops sprang up everywhere, quite a lot of them financed by car yards, with Me Too dollars signs flashing in their eyes. The workshops were usually staffed by young blokes, waving a bit of paper that said they were bike mechanics. The majority of them didn't know their heads from their arses. But this didn't stop the bike shop owners from charging inflated costs for their labor.
A lot of the old school mechanics left the industry in disgust, taking years of knowledge with them. The same greed that bought a lot of newcomers into the industry, is also what helped to kill the industry. I have nothing against the new age triumphs, I just have no desire to own one, for many reasons. I don't look at the past through rose tinted glasses.
 
#13 ·
Hi guys if I can chime in here..................

I have owned 2 Meriden Triumphs , a 1974 T140V Bonneville as well as a 1975 T150 Trident, the one with the 'breadbox' tank ,low UK handlebars and that glorious triple sound.I loved those Triumphs they were real bikes even with their faults(vibration that would shatter front mudguard stays for the Bonnie and very poor assembly for the Trident-there were cigarette filters in the fuel lines :surprise: and crap MPG )

However......

I currently own a 1998 Trophy 1200. Considered by some to be a 'classic' in its own way. I do all the work on the bike myself with the exception of changing tyres. I have owned a newer T100 Bonneville , a 2007 carb version, and it was nothing like the old Bonnevilles. It looked different,sounded different and performed different. But it was a Triumph Bonneville of 2007 - not 1974. I look at the newest models as a natural progression with new engineering , new looks, new sound, etc, and they are x10 more reliable and user-friendly than the old ones. Did edward Turner think that his Speed Twin, which was a radical design for its day, as a 'fake'Triumph? i don't think so. Look at the Ford Mustang - the new ones cannot be compared with the original in the '60's. But I do agree with the comments made about the new 'Mini' and 'Beetle' they are nothing like the original in concept design or status.

We are all members of great riding fraternity - Triumph motorcycles. We love riding the, showing them off, curse them when they break, curse the cost of parts and lament for the 'old days'. The old days are gone. Even the old Bonnevilles are better machines with new improved seals, sealants,oils, filters, electric ignition ( remember trying to gap the points together.......)

So, how about we all continue supporting the Triumph brand,from all other brands, whether it be a Meriden Triumph or a Hinkley Triumph, for the next 100 years

Just my 2c worth

Cheers in peace
Gary
 
#14 ·
Just your 2cc*

Agreed: we love the Trumpets, old and new.

I see visitors looking down at pagodas here, saying "I expected a thousand-year-old pagoda" when they are in front of a new building, and can't help but say yes, the place of worship is several centuries old. That it is rebuilt and renewed is part of the cycles of life the same way as in buddhism people are reincarnated into another cycle.

Same here: other world, other people, same drive for quality and riding --"for the ride" if I may.

I proudly stand beside my Bonnie.
 
#16 ·
......While down there last week I checked out all the shops that could handle vintage Triumph work. My first question was whether they had a mechanic that worked on "Meriden" Triumphs, ........
Joe's Garage in Cocoa Beach is currently doing a piston and valve job on my '72 Tiger. I can pm the telno to you if you want.
 
#17 ·
The Mechanics who worked on the old Coventry & Meriden built bikes are likely all dead now. Some guys maybe still around who worked on the later Devon built Bonnies that continued to be built there under licence from John Bloor from 1983 after the Meriden factory closed until 1988 when he got the Hinckley factory into motion.
There are many workshops in the UK that still work on the older bikes but most are serviced by their enthusiast owners using specialists for machining work & mags/dynamos.

A shame that some of the more modern Triumph prototypes of the 70's were never put into production eg the Quadrant & Bandit, then maybe there might not have been such a technical / us & them gap between the Devon & Hinckley models.
 
#18 ·
I suppose I'm lucky in a way.
One of the bike shops here, has been Triumph since I was a kid.
The old owner used to race in scrambles, riding a 650 Triumph of 50's/60's vintage.
Now they have Hinkley models, new and old on display.
The mechanics own both Hinkley and Meriden bikes, so they have experience of both types.
I go there when I have problems with my old bikes that I can not do.
Often I creep into their workshop, asking if I should book it in.
If its a 5 minute job, they usually do it, "for a drink".
Longer jobs are booked-in, which is expensive.
The last time I went there, they were on a break, can we help? one asked. Yes I have a problem, I replied.
One of them said, 'yes its an A65' :wink2:

Hinkley Triumphs bear no similarity to Meriden models, except the logo.
I have never seen a Meriden bike on the forecourt for sale lately, maybe they sell very quickly?

One of the other bike shops deals mainly with Jap models, but the mechanics are helpful with older bikes.
What year are we talking about? he asks...1971,... gasp! :grin2:
 
#19 ·
01marc


When Bloor restarted Triumph no punches pulled they wanted NOTHING to do with the Meriden & earlier bikes. The old bikes and older riders were considered to be irrelevant. As one of the US Sales managers once said to me "We are NOT the same Triumph!!" In the US they wanted nothing to do with the old dealer network. I also had the pleasure of having correspondence with CEO Mike Vaughn one of the rudest people I have had the 'pleasure' of meeting.


Mr Bloor is not a stupid man and did realize the power of the Triumph name and then capitalized on it. That is why they reference the old bikes MONEY! I have friends in the UK fairly close to the company and it has been suggested I might like one of the Hinckley models. My response was Company Reps give me a hard time and then think I will purchase their product:laughhard.




K
 
#20 · (Edited)
01marc

Mr Bloor is not a stupid man and did realize the power of the Triumph name and then capitalized on it. That is why they reference the old bikes MONEY!
K
That's spot on pal, it's all about the dosh. Same as when Ariel bought out Triumph. Jack Sangster bought it for the name, then put his top designers in. First to pretty up the bikes they already had. While they were on with designing a whole new range of twins. Val Page designed that rubbish 6/1 650cc twin in the early 30's. Turner was quick to follow it up with the brilliant for its time, 500cc Speed twin design that in its various guises kept the company going for the next 50 years. Pity they didn't invest some of the profits in the good times. They had the expertise but not the management, after Turner retired in '63 the company lived on its laurels, or tried to.

Sangster did back then, exactly what Bloor did 50 years later.
 
#21 ·
I've had a 1973 T100 for 7 years in the mid 1980s. I now have a 2015 Street Triple after a couple of years on a 2013 Thruxton.

I would like to own a 1970s T100 again, but I don't have the time to lavish the care it would need.

To me the Street Triple is a true descendant to Edward Turner's Triumphs and his ethos of fast, light manoeuvrable bikes.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 
#22 ·
It really is surprising how much divide there is whether you own a new or vintage Triumph.:frown2:
I am going to respectfully disagree with you. And with many of the responses here. I find that the Hinckley versus Meriden argument is often self imposed. My TOMCC branch here in Huntsville has folks who ride both Hinckley and Meriden Triumphs and there is nothing but respect for each others' motorcycles. The vintage Triumphs hold a particular place of respect in this club.

You did not mention Triumph dealerships, but I think it is clearly understood that no dealership anywhere services vintage motorcycles/cars/whatever's. So that isn't part of this discussion.

The shops that you are looking at do have one big problem; Time. The folks with the skill and knowledge you seek are retired or dead. There are a few still at work but not many. Those folks are out enjoying their vintage Triumph's at the beach somewhere. The younger folks simply do not have the level of experience you seek. And not all of the ones who do will be old enough to be fully immersed in the history of Triumph for the Meriden name to be intuitive.

I ride Hinckley Triumphs. I learned to ride in the mid-90's so these ARE the Triumphs I grew up with. Nobody in my family rode when I was growing up so my experience with motorcycles came later. However, I love the vintage Triumphs and hope to own/rebuild/ride one someday.

I don't see a reason for any real Hinckley versus Meriden disconnect. I for one don't intend to play into it.

Cheers!
 
#25 ·
FWIW the local Triumph dealer in San Diego has always worked on vintage Triumph as well as being a full service Hinckley Triumph dealer since the 90s . The store recently changed hands due to the tragic death of the owner but the new owners have brought in the owners of the local vintage bike shop to service vintage brit bikes as well as the newest Hinckley offerings .
I have owned both Hinckley and Meriden bonnies and though mechanically they are worlds apart the riding experience is much the same ...no frills , no gadgets or gimmicks , just a naked bike.
As to 'real ' Triumphs ...you could argue that only Coventry and Co-op bikes are real Triumphs because BSA owned triumph for most of the classic 50s and 60s years and nearly took them down when they stopped BSA motorcycle production .. ..that Bloor started another Triumph Motorcycle Company is a miracle in itself , I dont question its authenticity after 20 + years of success .
 
#29 · (Edited)
Strewth.

I have a Hinkley Thruxton and a 1971 T120 and have owned (and rode a big figure 8 over the US and bits of Canada on) a Hinkley Tiger 1050.

I don't see what the fuss is about. I love riding my Thruxton - it is a plain fun bike. I thought the 1050 was a great touring bike with a sweet motor.

I have had great fun (and at times frustration) with my T120. It is a very different kettle of fish to the others but so what? I love it too (and hate it sometimes but it is staying in my garage with the Thruxton!).

I find most people who ride the new Triumphs very partial to the old ones and appreciative of the history of the the company as well.

Why the need to get into an argument about which is 'better' or which is 'more authentic'.

Enjoy them for what they are. Motorcycles, not status symbols. :mad:
 
#31 ·
Strewth.

I have a Hinkley Thruxton and have owned (and rode a big figure 8 over the US and bits of Canada on) a Hinkley Tiger 1050 and a 1971 T120.

I don't see what the fuss is about. I love riding my Thruxton - it is a plain fun bike. I thought the 1050 was a great touring bike with a sweet motor.

I have had great fun (and at times frustration) with my T120. It is a very different kettle of fish to the others but so what? I love it too (and hate it sometimes but it is staying in my garage with the Thruxton).

I find most people who ride the new Triumphs very partial to the old ones and appreciative of the history of the the company as well.

Why the need to get into an argument about which is 'better' or which is 'more authentic'.


Bloody hell mate, what's the use of a forum if we can't stir each other up a bit? My best mate and I have known each other for about 50 years, I still give him crap about his b.s.a. just as he gives me crap about my triumph having a hinge in the middle. If you keep talking like that, the mods will create a safe place for people that get offended.
 
#32 ·
To clear things up a bit, I went to the Hinkley Triumph dealer expecting the answer I got, that they do not work on any vintage Triumphs. They did refer me to the next shop down the road. The Old School shop I stopped at second had a 68 Tiger on display out front in a non stock green and cream paint scheme. Was asking a hopeful $8500, about $2K too high. The owner was an old school looking Harley mechanic type, Long mountain man gray hair and beard (picture Leon Russell), he had no clue what a Meriden triumph was. He did refer me to another shop that did work on vintage Triumphs. I'll check him out next trip.
 
#37 ·
this is a little bit superficial and may have the odd error but here goes...

Triumph started off as a typewriter and bicycle company by a German immigrant in the late 1880s in Coventry. He dropped typewriters and produced motorised bikes as well as push bikes in the early 1900s, opened a German factory as well, then after WW1 branched into also making cars.

The German factory split from Triumph to become TWN (and lasted until 1957), Triumph cars split in the 1930s to become separate from bikes, Triumph bikes was going broke and was sold to the owner of Ariel motorcycles (Jack Sangster) and developed their big winner - the upright parallel twin designed by his Ariel protege Edward Turner.

The Coventry factory was bombed out in WW2 and they had to move to site to Meriden.

Then in the early 1950s was sold by Sangster to BSA. In the early 1970s BSA tried to overhaul the way Triumph was building bikes resulting in an industrial dispute where the workers took over the Meriden factory and locked the gate.

The workers then formed a cooperative to make and sell the bikes and parts to BSA. BSA a couple of years later went broke but the cooperative kept making and selling bikes until the early 1980s.

Finally they ran out of money when they couldn't get finance to modernise their plant to keep up with the Japanese in 1983.

John Bloor bought the bankrupt company's name and manufacturing rights and their IP, designs etc. He allowed Len Harris to (LFHarris) to continue to manufacture Triumph Bonnevilles under licence. The Meriden factory was sold for a housing estate (Bloor didn't buy the factory site itself, just the name, rights and IP), the plant and inventory was sold off to the highest bidder.

While LF Harris made and sold Triumphs under licence, Bloor went away and developed a new factory and designs in much secrecy at Hinkley and produced the first Hinkley Triumphs in 1990.

Somehow he pulled it off and 27 years later Hinkley Triumph is still going strong. Very small player compared to the big manufacturers but still running. During the whole history the Triumph logo changed a number of times.

Like I said that is a bit simplistic and may not be 100% right but I think is a pretty close summary.

So are the Hinkley bikes really 'Triumph'?

I dunno. Was the cooperative really Triumph? Or Meriden when BSA owned them? Or Triumph after Sangster bought them? Or were the German Triumphs the 'real' ones? Or were the only real Triumphs the ones Seigried Bettmann made?

I reckon it is a great story. The latest bikes are not derived from the older ones (other than in name and styling) but without the older ones their would be no modern Hinkley ones. There certainly would not be the Triumph modern twins. They only exist because of what went before.
 
#41 ·
Hmmm.... Where are the new Bonnies made?

So should they be allowed on our "all British" ride? Flyer states British motor cycles only. please!

Where are the new Hondas, Toyotas, Mercedes made?

Lots of really nice guys in the club have new Triumphs. So far as I know, Triumph is really the only old type bike with a twin seat & classic upright riding position made in the world. Now that's old school!
Don
 
#45 ·
Royal Enfield is pretty upright position classic looking bike.
Yes,Triumph Bonnevilles are made out in Thailand and Enfield in India but both accepted on British bike runs in the UK as that is their origin.Not that it matters much,we just go out to have some fun for a day and admire whatever anyone has brought along.
 
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