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right oily plug

3K views 21 replies 4 participants last post by  CHIEFBATLAX 
#1 ·
Still having issues with my 66. the right plug is constantly oily. Since my engine is on its final rings for oversize condition. Can i just degrees my spark plugs after every ride until she need a new top end?
 
#3 ·
Yes, you can do that. Keep a spare with you in case it fouls while out on the road also. There is a risk in running hotter plug, in you can melt a piston which sends metal into the bottom end. Are you sure it's oil & not gas fouling? You're already at risk for pinging with California gas.

I see lots of guys ride bikes with lots of smoke & oily plugs & it works ok so long as you keep oil topped up. If the plugs foul & the motor misfires on ride, then that's too much to live with.

What you need to do is find the real cause of the oil consumption. The easiest way is find someone with a bore scope. Lots of shops in California now have bore scopes. Automotive shops that is. Call around for a shop that has one. Ride bike by & chat with the techs. Once on your side they tend to be very helpful.

Ride the bike say 20 miles, come back to the garage & pull plugs. Look into combustion chambers with valves open. If valve guides/stems are the cause you will plainly see oil running out the guide. We bore scope motors often at work & it really works.

The cyl. is harder to evaluate unless you see an obvious deep score. Lots of fine scratches may or may not cause oil burning. You still cannot see what rings are doing. But if guides are dry you know oil is coming by the rings. You can burn much oil by rings & still have perfect compression.

How many miles is on rings? I could be rings are coked up with hardened oil. You can clean rings & pistons with rings still on pistons. Then just reinstall if they are coked.

If the cyl is tapered & out of round it will be hard for any ring to not pass oil.
Don
 
#5 ·
Hi Chief, I have some thoughts. Ride bike 20 min or so, pull plugs, put on center stand & rotate motor with rear wheel.

Look at intake valves best you can through plug hole with flash light. You can see a little of the valve. Look at back side. Compare left to right. Does right side look like it has fresh wet oil compared to left?
Will be hard to see without practice, but give it a try.

My true feeling is ring problem.

What exactly & at what miles has been done to the top end? Rebore & pistons? What about head work? What brand pistons & rings did you use?

I have some thoughts on running the motor in further, but first I'd like to know an accurate repair history.

I'm somewhat familiar with your area. To run in motor I'd get really early Sun. AM & ride a good 65mph up the mountains off the 210. Ride up hwy2 or up mount Baldy & around, then home. Don't ride lazy, but keep the motor working. Keep the freeway speed up as possible considering traffic. Check oil often & don't let it run too low. Bring some spare plugs. The freeway run & roads in the mountains will do the rings good. If they don't run in with that ride, they won't.
Don
 
#7 ·
This is list of the parts in the rebuild. Don't know the manufacture

.080 Pistons and rings​​​​​​​$149
.010. undersized rod bearings​​​​​​$59
RH Main Ball bearing​​​​​​​$85
Small end rod bushings​​​​​​​$39
Complete Gasket set​​​​​​​$49
Seal set​​​​​​​​​$38
Crank sludge trap plug​​​​​​​$12
Clutch chainwheel​​​​​​​$85
Clutch plates & springs​​​​​​​$90
Primary tensioner blade​​​​​​​$27
High gear trans bearing and thrusts​​​​​$49
Tappet block​​​​​​​​$45
Countershaft sprocket 19 T​​​​​​$29
Primary Chain​


It was a pretty thorough rebuild.

Don't think I can take her up to mountains but I can take her on some high speed runs on the freeway.

Is there a thicker oil that might not burn as much?


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#10 ·
Hi Chief, Ok, the dry valves eliminates the valve guides.

From your list it looks like they did all the parts that were needed.

When you say she died out on me, what do you mean by that? Started running on 1 cly, just the left or the motor stopped running entirely?

The photo is not close enough for me to really see exactly what the plug is like. You might have a few problems.

Is the motor using oil? Are you sure you are getting good spark all the time? At 900miles with a really oily plug, I'd expect smoke & oil consumption. No spark can leave a plug looking oily also. I wish you were closer.

Yes, do the freeway run in. The idea is to keep the RPM up & the cylinder pressure up. This forces the rings out tightly to the cyl. wall & rubs off the high spots so the ring will exactly match the cyl. At least that's the idea. Sometimes it doesn't work though or there are some other problems that prevent the rings from seating. Seating means the wearing in/rubbing off the high spots.

Did they bore the cly.? Or, was it already .080 over?

Did they do the valves & valve guides?

If they did a bore I would think you could go back & rehone & rering the pistons & maybe get a better result.

A friend of mine recently went through his motor. Bore & new pistons. Smoked on the 1st attempt. Went back & did the hone & rings. Let me talk to him & see what rings he used on the 2nd attempt. I'll also get the exact type break in oil he used.

We did a 80 mile break in ride together. I followed him many miles after the 2nd ring set & no visible smoke ever. I did not smell burning oil either.

On the other hand another friend did hone & ring on used cyl & pistons. The cylinders were in marginal condition. It really should have been bored. He gets smoke & following I can see smoke often, but not always (which is puzzling), & it smells of burning oil. I followed him on the break in ride also. Was interesting to observe the reduction of smoke after about 75 miles. First part of ride ways easy freeway speeds, then we did lots of mountain roads. Next ride was 110 miles of fairly fast mountain roads. The motor settled into moderate smoke & pretty much stayed like that. Break in was done well & proper. These were Hastings rings with proper hone grit & cross hatch per Hastings instructions. The motor really should have had rebore. Again no misfires, dying & not fouling plug.

Of course on a good motor you will see no visible smoke ever. My bike & many it the club never smoke at all. My frame oil drops only about 1/2" in 1000 miles. I do lots of freeway & mountain riding. Lots of city riding too, but the miles are on the open road. I usually cruise 62-65mph on the freeway.

I think you will get a good outcome. I agree you may do better on your own.

Maybe someone in this group is near you that could advise you better in person. I'm in the BSA Owner's Club Northern California. There is a Southern CA branch as well. Maybe as many or more Triumphs in club than BSA. Lots of smart guys in the club. Almost all the guys & gals are really nice & very helpful. Do web search & join the club. Then ask if someone will mentor you. I expect a knowledgeable member to be close to you.

I'll get back to you later this week after contacting the fellow that had good results on the rering. Don't loose heart, you'll solve this.
Don
 
#13 ·
Hi Chief, What did compression test show? How does the ignition & carb systems test out? Any problems there must be corrected 1st.

Talked to friend about break in oil. 1st though, they did not take the cyl. off again. I misunderstood him on that. It was a carb issue which was from gas tank liner dissolving. It was flooding the carb due to needle getting stuck open. That was black smoke, not oil smoke.

Back to oil. He got break in oil at Raber's San Jose, CA USA. Torco TBO 40w.


http://www.torcousa.com/torco_product/tbo.html


I called Raber's about their experience with this break in oil. They say it's the best for ring seating they've used. Also has high levels of zinc for cam protection etc.

Bob Raber said they find rings are often seated in 50-100 miles. This is with new pistons & rings. They often change it then. They often use Torco motorcycle oil after that. I think he said T4. It's under power sports oils.

Personally if it was me I'd run 500 miles on TBO, summer I'd use 40w, winter I'd use 30w. Then I'd use Mobil 1 v-twin 20/50. Personally I'd use the Mobil1 v-twin in your primary too.

This is not a concern for you, but if you have a '70 or new bike, primary oil is engine oil also. Bob Raber says the Torco TBO can cause clutch sticking over time (not slip). That is why they change it. Often people don't ride much & can take months to cover even 100 miles.

My feeling is use the TBO, cover 500 miles in less than 1 month or sooner if possible & go to Mobil1 V-twin.

We also discussed bike not breaking in promptly & often if they don't & had proper break in something is wrong with rings or cyl etc. One side of yours is ok, they other is not. If a ring is installed upside down, which is easy to do, it can pump oil up into combustion chamber instead of returning it to sump.

Still I would consider the TBO now & see what happens. You have nothing to loose.
Don
 
#14 ·
^^^^^^^^^^

I had to do clutch job on my other bike and was trying to get that dialed in today.

Sunday's are my moto mechanic days and after I got the compression gage I tried starting up the old triumph and couldn't get her going. Nothing. I noticed one of the coils not cone Ted and and re-attached it and still nothing.

Both sides should be connected right?
Auto part Vehicle door Automotive exterior Vehicle Technology



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#18 ·
Hi Chief, Tritn is correct. Hold on full throttle. Also keep kicking until gauge no longer raises. Yes warm engine is best.

Depending on your compression gauge it can take several kicks. Mine usually takes about 9 kicks.

Kicking motor is not exactly the same as a running motor as far as the rings are concerned. Running motor continuously supplies oil to rings as oil is thrown from spinning crank. Kicking motor the RPM is too slow to throw much oil.

This can give a low false reading due to oil being wiped off during compression check. I find the first side does ok, then by time you test next side it may read false low. So I like to do compression test a few times starting with the opposite cyl. each time. This gives a really good idea of what the cranking compression is.

Testing on a cold motor is really hard to get an accurate reading because the oil has drained off the rings & cly. to much greater degree.

Squirting oil onto piston which coats rings with oil, & retesting will bring compression up even with poor rings. That test is more to determine if valves are leaking. The fresh oil squirt may seal rings, but it can't seal a leaking valve.

Really when getting into diagnostics you need a cylinder leakage tester & a bore scope. The leakage tester puts compressed air into cyl. at low pressure & you can measure the % that leaks out & most importantly you can hear the air escaping at the intake, exhaust, or breather pipe so you know what to look at on tear down.

Again, good compression & good leak down can still have oil burning. A bore scope can help then, but even then a tear down may be the only way to tell.

At the same time the coil wiring & no start are issue you must correctly resolve first.
Don
 
#21 ·
Hi Chief, They were mistaken about 3 kicks. The number of kicks depends on the gauge. It's the final reading we are interested in.

Like I stated, keep kicking until gauge will not go up any higher. Often as you get near the max pressure the needle raises much more slowly. Some of the gauges may need even 15 kicks or more to reach max pressure. Remember all the air inside the hose & gauge must get compressed.

The number of kicks needed can depend on the internal volume of the hose & fittings on gauge & the size of the bourdon tube inside the gauge. The tube looks like a flat bent straw closed at one end. Pressure wants to straighten it. A little linkage arrangement connects this straightening motion to the needle. Really fun to watch them work, just like blowing into those whistles that unwind a paper tube & it rolls back up... The gauge only does it a tiny bit though.

The Schrader valve in the end of spark plug threaded fitting can effect reading also. It looks like an inner tube one, but it's not. It acts as a check valve.
Don
 
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