Hi,
I'm looking at buying a '68 Bonneville that has a replacement engine fitted. The engine is stamped XD34561 - nothing else is on the plate. I've been told it's a T140V (5 speed).
Doesn't seem right to me - anyone know?
I first posted this on Hinckley Twins forum on this site with pics, but won't let me upload them again.
I'm looking at buying a '68 Bonneville that has a replacement engine fitted. The engine is stamped XD34561 - nothing else is on the plate. I've been told it's a T140V (5 speed).
Doesn't seem right to me
On the face of it, I agree. "XD" equates to December ("X") of the 1970 season ("D"); for reasons I can bore the pants of you with, that actually equates to a calendar date in December 1969. Also, that date code and number would've been followed by a model code - "T120" or "TR6" here in GB.
Otoh, T140V was model not introduced 'til the '73 season. Also "V" indicates a 5-speed 'box; not impossible to retrofit to a '70 650 twin but something that's easy to check.
Finally, as someone's pointed out in the other Forum, any original date code, number and model code from this era would've been stamped over a series of small "Triumph" logos.
On the face of it, I agree. "XD" equates to December ("X") of the 1970 season ("D"); for reasons I can bore the pants of you with, that actually equates to a calendar date in December 1969. Also, that date code and number would've been followed by a model code - "T120" or "TR6" here in GB.
Otoh, T140V was model not introduced 'til the '73 season. Also "V" indicates a 5-speed 'box; not impossible to retrofit to a '70 650 twin but something that's easy to check.
Finally, as someone's pointed out in the other Forum, any original date code, number and model code from this era would've been stamped over a series of small "Triumph" logos.
The bike in the picture has a 1970 front frame section. The engine is not to the bike and appears have had numbers restamped It also appears to be a 750. Switching a left hand shift to a right hand shift is not very difficult. The VIN XD34561 would be a correct series for a Dec 1969 built 1970 model year Triumph 650.
One of those situations that make you wonder why is was restamped. I could understand it if someone was restamping the engine number to match the legal VIN of the frame, but in this case it's a 70 number in a 68 frame. You'll need to check other parts on the motor to determine if it is in fact a 70 model.
This is what a correct VIN plate should look like. Model number on to, serial number on the bottom and small Triumph stamps in the background. This is a Dec. 76 build date.
Looks like someone has bolted a load of old parts together. If it was a 1970 frame at one time, as suggested, maybe that's why the engine number was changed to match. But why alter the frame number again?
If it says DU76***, that is a 68 VIN number. The front motor mount on the pre70 frames had tabs welded to the frame. In 1970 they added the triangular removable plates specific to the 70 model only to ease removal of the motor from the frame. Yours have the plates, so looks like a 70.
This is a 69 frame, similar to the 68 frame with the weld on tabs in front.
This is the 70 frame:
If it were me I would probably walk away from this purchase or seriously look at a really low price for it after having it checked out by the authorities.
After my comment on the frame number and seeing the motor mount, that frame has either been restamped with an earlier VIN number, or some one modified the frame to accept the 70 style motor mount plates which is doable. I would still run away from this. BTW, what are they wanting for this Bitsa?
Sorry, I meant to put the number in, it's T120RDU76021
Getting paranoid wondering if that's been changed also, as being mentioned as a '70 front frame.
It's a better pic that shows the front motor mount, definitely a 70 model that has been restamped with a 68 VIN number. Again, my recommendation is to walk away. Now that you are a bit more knowledgable bring these facts up to the seller and see how he justifies it.
This bike has come from the USA and being sold in the UK, so will need to be registered here. The Triumph Owners Club provide details to enable you to do that over here - I've already sent pictures and details to them, so will be interesting to see what they come back with.
After a long and very meaningless chat with the seller, he's now relisted the bike on eBay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-B...221555?hash=item3f69845bb3:g:Q~kAAOSwqfNXoMWk
He wouldn't admit that anything was wrong and said 'you lot' were all experts who didn't know what they were talking about. So now it's a 1970 T120 engine in a 1968 frame instead of a '79 engine. Absolute ********ter all along. He now reckons it's worth more with the 650 engine in - is it a 650 though?
This is what the original listing said:
Triumph Bonneville T120R 1968 Cafe Racer, runs and rides well sold as a running restoration project will need the carbs cleaning etc, fitted with a later 1979 T140 750cc 5 speed engine,
Frame No T120RDU76021 Engine No XD34561
Imported by myself from the USA which accounts for its well preserved condition.
Will be supplied with a NOVA number to enable easy UK road registration.
This is the link to the YouTube video showing the bike running :-
Consider the insurance aspect.If you insured the bike with a specific number,then in an accident,the insurer might say that is not the bike they insured due to alteration.Like suggested,buy an unaltered bike.A place in Exeter has plenty of import Triumphs at the moment.That bike will cost an awful lot to get into a good order and if you try to re-sell,it will have less value than it cost.That is if you could find anyone who would buy a bike with illegal alterations to frame numbers.Make a field bike out of it.Looking at the gearing with that large rear sprocket,the bike would get to about 70 mph very fast.
I wanted to buy something to play about with - back problems mean riding is out at the moment - wasn't going to try and restore to original, but thought that it might be a good starting point.
that motor is def a 750, number of barrel fins 6 stud rocker cover etc.
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