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Just delivered, '72 Tiger TR6R 650

25K views 216 replies 20 participants last post by  o1marc 
#1 ·
I've waited since the 1960s to have one and it's finally here.

The spark plug threads, as the seller recommended, were chased and now the plugs screw in all the way down to the base quite easily with fingers, finger tight. It's now only 1015 hrs EST and time for a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale along with a shot of Seagrams Platinum. Tears because it's all mine after all these years of waiting.

My plan is to fill the motor with the proper lubricants along with a zinc additive in the crank case and turn over the engine using the kick starter several times with spark plugs removed. Marvel's Mystery Oil will be then added to the top end and the motor turned over gently. Then, it'll be allowed to set for the next several days to allow the lubricants to "soak in" to all the parts.

The motor will probably be turn over several times during the soaking-in period.

Oh boy oh boy oh boy, I get to use all of my Snap Ons and Craftsman wrenches dating as far back as the 1920s. And then there's that Simpson XLPM 260 Multi meter analogue. I get to use all of my electrical and mechanical skills gained from a lifetime of working on VWs and old Dodge vans.
 
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#6 ·
Hi tjkoko, So you are in USA.

My bike was in storage 34 yrs. I oiled cly. With motor oil. Marvel is better.

I got free oil from work, pennzoil 10-30. Filled eng to brim via rocker boxes. On our bikes this fills primary too. Let sit over night. Drained out motor & primary.

Changed frame oil & cleaned frame screen & eng screen. Filled frame, kicked motor over several times to blow oil from cly. Installed plugs & started motor. Of course oil is now in exhaust so expect lots of smoke.

I used car oil.. NO GOOD! Made clutch slip after 10 mile road test. Draining all & using the VTwin cured slip in 20 miles!

Next time I'd do the sleeping beast. But use the marvel on Pistons.

Drain primary oil by siphon via filler hole. Fill primary 250cc eng oil. Get baby bottle to measure. Search my post for how to.

On start up oil pressure light should go out right away. But it will take a good 20-40 seconds to have oil spurting back to frame reservoir. That is normal so don't worry. But oil light should go off in a few seconds. Frame oil level will drop lots. Run motor 40 seconds or so then stop & check oil level. Top to 1" below threads for now. After several miles recheck oil.


My bike started & ran decent on 1st kick. But all the other prep work was done. New motobatt battery, removed carb & cleaned which was clogged with varnish & hardened gas deposits. Tank had same deposits plus a little surface rust. Cleaned tank & repl taps & fuel lines. I use points. Bike ran good before storage, so I just cleaned, lubed points.

Verify you have spark at plugs.
Make sure points move freely on the pivot, they can stick there. Often the spring is in a bind & pulling points crooked. The must snap back smartly! If you need to check timing us static method in manual holding full advance with the largewasher. Old vw was points so it will be easy. Use timing light later after running.

Carb can be very hard to clean idle jet. Use a skinny wire through jet. Look at bushman' carb site for cutaway views so you know where to blow air while blocking passages with fingers & golf tees.

Only use genuine Amal parts!! Get a stay up float & matching alum. Needle with viton tip. Flatten surfaces with emery paper.

Use a fat oring & new square stud orings. Use proper air gap to manifold. .040-.060". Yes that much gap. New oring will seem too large, but grease & work it in with small screw driver as you bring carb in with nuts.

Make sure tank taps flow gas well & actually shut off.

If you feel compression at all don't adj valves yet.

Tickle carb until gas shows at tickler hole. Give little or no throttle. Free clutch. Bring to compression & kick hard. As it fires rev engine. It will not idle cold well if at all. Take at test ride & let oil burn from inside exhaust. If all seems well ride 20 min. Then adj rpm & mixture. Ride more a good hour or more. Let cool over night. Then when cold, re torque head, then check valve adj. Warm eng & check timing with light.

I'd change all oils & clean both screens in 100 miles or so. You'll be ok then. If some light rust on cly wall don't worry. Usually no problems with that.

Often oil leaks will arise after some miles. We'll deal with that later.

Don't fart around with zinc. Just get the VTwin & be done with it. The clutch will thank you too. $12 quart.
Don
 
#11 ·
Hi Grandpaul, The motor hand not been turned on 34 years. Surprisingly the oil level had only dropped 4" in the frame reservoir.

I wanted to soak the rod, cam bushings, tappets/cams, wrist pins, main bearings with oil. Oil down spark plug holes for rings. Valve covers removed allowed oil to be sprayed on rockers & valve guides. I wiggled rockers sideways to work into shaft slightly. I know that's only partial lube there.

Why do you say it harms primary?

I respectfully disagree that harm is done inside primary from that. It's constantly covered in oil with the motor running anyway. But I'm interested in your thoughts.

I did not turn eng over while it was full. I didn't want to chance hydraulicing anything. I suppose a hard kick could bring Pistons down so fast oil could pop out the cam or main shaft seal, but I suspect it would just push it out the breather behind clutch.

Again, I'd do the wake the sleeping beast way next time.

I've covered 9k miles since out of storage, so all's well that ends well.
Don
 
#14 ·
.............I did not turn eng over while it was full. I didn't want to chance hydraulicing anything. I suppose a hard kick could bring Pistons down so fast oil could pop out the cam or main shaft seal, but I suspect it would just push it out the breather behind clutch.......
Can you please elaborate on that statement.

IF the engine is overfilled kickstarting will pop out the seals or what?

If it's filled to normal capacity will the seals pop out when kickstarting????
 
#12 ·
Don,i would agree that oil filling would do no harm at all.I understand that this was a way of getting oil onto every part possible prior to starting.It would cover the clutch but that would not matter as later on,it might be adjusted and cleaned up as part of the re-commission.
Having read how the bike has run since,no harm done at all.
The worst thing i have seen on a laid up Triumph twin was the shell bearings had corroded,the surface expanded,and seized the shells to the crank.This was just laid up for 3 years.Very odd to see and the crank was still in good condition.New shells fixed it and it ran on for quite a time after.
 
#17 ·
I thought an engine was being FILLED with oil (literally filled, not topped off to normal levels).

ANYONE WHO DOUBTS:

Fill your primary up more than about half way with the correct primary lube. Then, go for a nice long ride. Well, TRY to go for a nice long ride; you won't get too far before excessive clutch slippage stops you.

The Triumph big twins use a DRY clutch. Yes, DRY. The oil is for the primary chain lube ONLY. Yes, the clutch operates in an oil MIST environment, not an oil BATH. With constant wetting, the friction plates become CONTAMINATED (not a word associated with normal operation), and must be cleaned before normal clutch operation is restored.
 
#18 ·
Again,Don was filling it up just to make sure oil got to all the parts overnight,He didnt ride it or fire it up and this was just a preparation for putting it back in operation.Easier than trying to squirt oil around the internals with an oil can which is impossible anyway.
Overfilling a primary on these later models will just allow the excess to go back into the engine.You cannot really overfill a shared primary as it is self levelling.
Triumph twins are considered dry clutches as Paul says Not that it appears very dry though !
Come back and explain it again Don.I think i grasped what you were saying though.
 
#20 ·
Hi Tjkoko, To be clear I did fill motor with oil to very top of the rocker boxes. DON'T DO THAT! If entire motor is filled with oil that can cause problems.

Filling oil to normal level where it should be is what you want to do. That will cause no problems with anything.

Sorry to have caused confusion.
Don
 
#21 ·
Hi Grandpaul, Thanks for the info on clutch.

Yes literally to the top right to valve springs. Left it overnight. I used car oil. After draining, refilled to proper levels. Road tested, after about 10 miles, made clutch slip. I then drained frame, eng sump, primary & refilled with v-twin 20-50. After 10 miles slippage was greatly reduced. After 20 miles no slip at all.

To be clear, I made no adjustments to clutch rod, lever or had primary cover off. I drained via chain adjuster hole (didn't know about siphoning then) which of course leaves a fair amount of oil remaining in primary. I drained it over night to get all I could though. The v-twin oil cured the slip on it's own & clutch worked good there after.

I change oil in all 3 the above places every 1000 miles. Always use v-twin. Always clean frame & sump screens every time.

Now that I siphon primary it gets almost all the oil out quickly.

On a side note, I had heard about the car oil & clutches. But I had some gallons of free oil & wanted to flush system. My plan was to fill to rocker boxes, drain next day. Clean screens, FILL TO NORMAL LEVEL ride a few miles & drain, fill to NORMAL LEVEL again. Did this twice. By the end of the 2nd change I covered 10 miles & the clutch slipped up a hill on my road test route.

Again I knew car oil made clutch slip, but this was non synthetic & I knew I'd only cover 10 miles. Then I'd put in the v-twin. So... I didn't really expect to have slippage so soon. Kind of figured I was screwed & would have to take clutch apart. But.... The V-twin cured it. I was surprised to say the least. I ran that fill of v-twin a few hundred miles & changed again, using v-twin.

Don
 
#22 ·
It's pretty clear at this point that the OP didn't mean fill it to the brim,but to top off the oil levels in the motor before adding MMO to the spark plug holes just to turn it over. That being said, if a motor sat empty for 40 years and one was to fill it to the brim with oil and then drain it after a day or so of soaking to be sure everything was lubricated and then turned it over, what possible negative could come from it?
 
#29 ·
I read the manual but it is not perfect.My factory manual has many mistakes.However,it is considered a dry clutch and i do keep my primary oil at the right level with 4T oil.Now,moving on,lets see a picture of this bike and hear about how it performs after a lay up.
 
#31 ·
Okay I'll soon post a centerfold of the bike once it's up and running. It needs a battery, new battery "cables" and a fuse that's connected in series with the battery's negative cable (that connects to the zener diode). And the fuse is 35 amps: it seems like overkill but yes I'll get a 35 amp fuse and the proper fuse holder for it. And also I'm taking my time with this project.
 
#37 ·
Hi,

It needs
new battery "cables"
British Wiring.

I use this for wires common to several circuits.

The wire in the original harness is known as "14/32SWG" - 14 strands, each of no.32 (British) Standard Wire Gauge. It was rated for only 7.5A, that's exceeded by the standard alternator output above about 2,000 rpm; the entire alternator output, whether being used by the bike's consumers or dumped as heat by the Zener, must travel along the Brown/Blue wire between the rectifier and Zener. :(

Before '71, Lucas had supplied BSA (including Triumph) with harnesses containing 14/32SWG for wires between individual components and junctions, but 28/32SWG for wires common to several circuits; i.e. Brown/Blue, White or White/Blue from the ignition switch to the White wires' juction, Red to battery +ve, etc. The aforementioned "25 Amp" wire is metric-equivalent conductor - 28/0.30 (28 strands, each 0.3 mm. o.d.) encased in a more-modern plastic insulation that allows the overall diameter of the wire to be pretty-much the same as the pre-'71 Imperial stuff. :thumb

fuse that's connected in series with the battery's negative cable (that connects to the zener diode).
If the bike is going to have only one fuse, it's better to put it in series with the battery's positive terminal. Reasons are:-

. Your bike's electrics are known as 'positive ground'; all this means is the bike's structure is connected to the battery's positive terminal. If something metallic accidentally touches the battery's negative terminal, by definition it'll either be part of, or touching (e.g. broken seat pan, loose tool or component) the bike's structure. A fuse in the wire from the battery's -ve terminal will not protect the battery from damagingly-rapid discharge, because the short-circuit won't be through it. :( Otoh, a fuse in the wire to the battery's +ve terminal will blow, protecting the battery, :thumb

. Works the same if a component goes wrong - e.g. the Zener failing closed; the Zener is mounted on the bike's structure (air filter casing on your bike?) and has a Red wire attached to it; Red wire to battery +ve has a/the fuse in it, is connected to both the bike's structure and the Red wires in the harness, fuse blows. :thumb.

the proper fuse holder for it.
If you mean the cylindrical translucent plastic thingy, be advised against it. The corresponding cylindrical glass-'n'-metal fuses are used by almost nothing else common today; to keep 'em vaguely cheap retail, the makers cut every corner possible producing 'em; they're virtually unobtainable from emergency sources like gas stations on Sunday afternoons ... :( Fit a fuse holder that takes one of these. :thumb

British fuses are rated for peak, not continuous amperage.
Fuses rated for peak usage,
Only those cylindrical glass-'n'-metal ones; blade fuses we rate 'continuous' too.

red wire hooked to ground
Red wire "hooked" to battery positive.

'79-on, Meriden changed to 'negative ground' - i.e. bike's structure connected to the battery negative terminal; then Black wire "hooked" to battery negative (multi-coloured wires to battery positive).

This is "counter" to the the US? :eek:

Hth.

Regards,
 
#36 · (Edited)
How I really appreciate this forum and learning how the Brits rate and build things "differently" from the U.S. and I don't want to incite any arguments concerning "us vs them" or whatever and I appreciate some of the input and lingo the Brits use. I'm here to learn. 8) Fuses rated for peak usage, red wire hooked to ground...... Geeze some of this stuff runs way counter to what I've learned growing up in the U.S.!
 
#40 ·
I thought about the blade fuse block but the purist in me just can't bare it.

I would have to bury it under the battery box to be out of sight and it wouldn't be all that easy to change a fuse.

What I seriously considered was a fuse block mounted under the primary side of the battery carrier with the tops of the fuses facing the tool box so when you pull the panel off you could access them.

If I would have wired her up from scratch I may have gone that route and had every circuit separate but I bought an OEM style loom so I am leaving it pretty much stock.

I may add a fuse to the positive side. That would be easy enough to do and give some added protection. Since many fuse holders have red wires it would look like a stock set up if done with the proper crimped connections.

The separate fuses for each circuit would certainly help with trouble shooting wouldn't it?
 
#52 ·
Stuarts way is of course the best way to go about it and I posted the link to show the style of crimps rather than the size.

The crimper tool for the Lucas style bullets is around $60! I KNOW it's a small price to pay for "right" but I went with perfectly OK and bought this.

Crimper

To be used on this style of connector.

Double crimp style non insulated connector

The wide crimp at the back of the connector clamps onto the insulation of the wire and the narrower crimp forward crimp the wire. The crimper I bought has the M-crimp and the finished crimp looks EXACTLY like the crimp on the ring terminals on my OEM style loom I bought from British Bike Bits.

Done correctly these will NOT pull out! I've had wires pull out of FACTORY compression crimp bullet connectors on old looms and there's the stress fractures I've heard of on the soldered Lucas style bullets. I can't speak to that having never had any soldered connection.

On the few connections I have used the double crimp bullets (ONLY to retrofit the 1998 Triumph signal switch/ dip switch and add indicator lights) I used shrinky dink tape and the connection is at least as good electrically as the original compression crimp bullets.

I did add a double crimp ring terminal to the earth on the R/R unit and if I add a fuse to the positive side of the battery I will use another.

But those solderless connectors are garbage!

Cheers all.
 
#56 ·
Clutch

Also, the oil prevents the inserts from wearing prematurely when the clutch is slipping, that is each time we take off in 1st gear. The springs then take over and overcome any slippage caused by the oil. That is of course dependent on the clutch being properly set up and adjusted. Wet multi plate clutches have been around for many years in many applications and manufacturers set the parameters for spring tension to overcome slippage of the oil wet plates.
 
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