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A subject for discussion...

4K views 59 replies 14 participants last post by  Cal30M1 
#1 ·
I don't know how to create a 'Poll' or even if I'm allowed to on this forum so I'll do it this way :-

THE PREMISE....
You live in a largely urban environment with the traffic and congestion that goes with it. You've just purchased a tatty but basically 'all there' mid '60s Triumph. You've got a few quid (dollars) to spend on it and you want to end up with a bike you can ride regularly but not necessarily on a daily basis, without being ashamed of it but you're not looking for a '100 point trailer queen'.

THE QUESTION....
Whilst 'doing it up', do you fit flashing direction indicators?

DISCUSS.... :D
 
#6 ·
I HAVE thought about it. A LOT!

I've tried to think of SOME way to do it and not detract from the originality of the bike and not look like a perfect hack job.

The back I think would be easier than the front. A license frame with some LED indicators are readily available BUT no indication if they are "bi-directional circuits" and probably only work on negative ground systems.

The front I've thought about some creative mounting using the back nut on the bottom the headlamp brackets but they might hit the tank in turns.

The brackets are NOT CHEAP and the only way I can think of to mount "original type" ones that are available all over ePay would be to drill hole in the sides of the brackets and THAT aint gonna happen Cap'n!

SO to answer your question, it's probably not going to happen. At least at first. I may fornicate with some ideas and waste some money after she's on the road.

Ya know the holes for the leads in the rear fender aint that big so I'm not even sure you could poke more wires through it. Probably though.

Horn broke. Watch for finger.
 
#27 ·
Hi,

The back
A license frame with some LED indicators are readily available BUT no indication if they are "bi-directional circuits" and probably only work on negative ground systems.
As long as each indicator has two wires - doesn't use parts of the license frame as 'ground' - the wires can be connected to appropriate 'sides' of the wiring and battery. Or I used a standard '70/'73-on dry-frame grabrail on my '69 T100.

The front
creative mounting using the back nut on the bottom the headlamp brackets but they might hit the tank in turns.
Or in front of the headlamp brackets? If you look at pictures of L.P. Williams T160-based Legends and T140-based Buccaneers, that's how he did them. On my Triumphs, I fit those stanchion clamp/headlamp bracket bolts from the back with domed nuts on the front to tidy the ends up. Or as I've suggested, the '73-on shrouds and brackets will fit, with the bonus that the headlamp's then rubber-mounted. :thumb

the holes for the leads in the rear fender aint that big so I'm not even sure you could poke more wires through it.
'73-on with the grabrail, there are two small grommeted holes each side of the fender, rear one by the indicator mounting and front one under the seat; the indicator wire (only one as standard) runs inside the fender between the two.

'74-on, the rear lamp wires were routed to run inside the timing side of the fender, exiting through the same front hole as the indicator wire. If you have two wires from each indicator, you can still route both through the fender holes with a different (standard) grommet but no room for the rear lamp wires as well; I'm using the standard '69-'73 holes and "Wiring protector" under the fender for those.

Hth.

Regards,
 
#7 ·
My 77 still had working signals when I bought it. I replaced them with some smaller brighter signals. An older bike that didn't come with signals, if I was in heavy traffic or riding after dark, I would install signals. They can't see your arm well after dark, and probably aren't even looking for it. If you don't want to drill holes, make brackets for the signals. Not having holes for them isn't a valid reason if you want them.
 
#9 · (Edited)
My thoughts on turn signals is that for them to be "effective" they need to be as big as possible and spread as far apart as possible, the 2 things most of us want to change. Turn signals in the headlight , flush mounted to the side of the cafe racer seat, in the license plate frame, in the ends of the tubes of the seat sub frame, etc. are absolutely useless in most case because the cagers just don't see them or pay attention to them. When a cars signal is on the car is wide enough to know immediately upon seeing the light which side it's on. On a bike with them seperated by only 8", it's only a flashing light on the back I have to take time to decide what it means. Most bikes that came with turn signals are required to have them in most states. Hand signals on the other hand are pretty obvious when you are waving your arm around. Plus you get the option of the 4th signal. You have left, right, stop, and the middle finger to those deserving it for ignoring your hand signal or electric signal. I have them on my XR on the rear, but I wouldn't rely on them. I will not put them on my Tiger. I ride with the assumption that no one sees me at all or are out to get me, so signals mean nothing.:smile2:
 
#11 ·
My thoughts on turn signals is that for them to be "effective" they need to be as big as possible and spread as far apart as possible, the 2 things most of us want to change. Turn signals in the headlight , flush mounted to the side of the cafe racer seat, in the license plate frame, in the ends of the tubes of the seat sub frame, etc. are absolutely useless in most case because the cagers just don't see them or pay attention to them. When a cars signal is on the car is wide enough to know immediately upon seeing the light which side it's on. On a bike with them seperated by only 8", it's only a flashing light on the back I have to take time to decide what it means. Most bikes that came with turn signals are required to have them in most states.
Are you sure about "most" states? I know my state law regarding signals is, if they have them they have to work, but they do not have to have them.

On a motorcycle the signals are sepatated by the tail/brake light. I have never heard anyone (let alone a moto rider), have trouble discerning which signal is which.
 
#20 ·
To avoid rear end collisions at lights or whatever, I never pull up behind the center of the vehicle in front of me, I'm always off to one side or the other for an escape route. My friend got rear ended on his Goldwing at a light, car was doing about 30mph when they hit him, he ended up hitting and crushing the windshield of the car that hit him and then his forward motion when the initial car squashed the wing and hit the car in front propelled him onto the trunk of the car he was behind and crushing out the rear window of it. Ruined his day to say the least, but remarkably was not injured more than cuts and bruises and walked away.
 
#21 ·
Oregon small print section: Hand signals can be used except with limited visability (night time would be limited). Also, the Oregon Motorcycle Manual states that lighted turn signals must be used at night. Another stupid law, but on Monday, I think I'll make some inquiries.
 
#23 ·
*816.340¹*Exemptions from required equipment
4)Motorcycles manufactured before 1973 are not required to be equipped with turn signals if the motorcycle is not driven during limited visibility conditions under ORS*811.405*(Failure to signal with lights)*and*811.515*(When lights must be displayed).

limited visibility condition

"Limited visibility condition" means: (1)Any time from sunset to sunrise;*
 
#25 ·
There is a T90 with indicators seen at Popham as i remember.It had indicators that were cleverly made to fold out of sight when parked.He had built a thicker rear number plate mount and it was hollow.The very flat indicators then folded into it dead flush.Cant remember how he hid the fronts but they really had to be looked for.At first glance,you would say the bike had no indicators.If i see it again at any shows this year,i will get a picture.
A very long time ago,back in the 70s,i had gauntlets with a big white area and a reflective arrow.These were much like police were using in the 60s and i found a used pair.Very effective at night.There are very small led orange units from China,search, eagle eye led.I have them as indicator warning lamps on my T120 set in the headlight shell.I wanted a left and right warning so fitted two.So bright that its hard to forget them and these would be good for actual indicators.There might be a need to incorporate a resistor to keep the flasher unit happy though.
 
#26 ·
Hi,

THE QUESTION...
I did on my ('69) T100.

However, I fitted these; much smaller than the Lucas/Triumph indicators. Also, when I bought them, they were also available with with chromed or polished ally bodies, and 'black' or clear lenses.

So I didn't have to make holes in standard front headlamp brackets, I fitted '73-on fork shrouds and headlamp brackets. The brackets are black, the front indicators are black-bodied with 'black' lenses, so they don't stand out unless they're working.

At the rear, my T100 has a '70/'73-on dry-frame grabrail, which have indicator mounting points. Here I fitted chrome-bodied indicators with clear lenses (and orange bulbs) so, again, they don't really catch they eye until they're working.

If it suits your bike better, the '70 version of the grabrail was/is also available in black with just the actual grab hoop chromed. Or there was a '73-on version - for, I think, models like police bikes - that was just the horizontal hoop with square brackets welded on for indicator mounting. You'd have to hunt the 'jumbles for one of these but I don't think they're particularly uncommon.

To work the indicators, I fitted this Sparx switch cluster (although it was about half the price it is now :eek:) - direct replacement for the standard horn-'n'-dipswitch, includes the indicators switch ... and gives you a headlamp flasher. :thumb And, again, doesn't look out of place?

Those particular indicators might not be available in all the varieties they were when I bought them but M&P has a vast selection.

Alternatively, if you don't want sticky-out indicators - at least at the front - I thought one of these would be pretty funky. :D

Hth.

Regards,
 
#28 ·
My 79 had indicators from new, but I replaced the original sticky outs with chrome bullet lights and orange lenses
I used the standard mount positions

When I first started riding I had a tiger cub and fitted a universal kit that was horrible and wasn't on the bike long

There are all sorts of alternatives now, Paul Goff has various options

If I was sticking to local daylight use I would stay original but rural night riding might be safer to have something
You could look at goffy and find an original looking type that fit the bars?
 
#30 ·
GREAT THREAD!

Lot's of good ideas and things to ponder.

All of my deliberations on the subject have been internal because I have her stripped to the bones at the moment so there's not always an easy way to prove or disprove an idea.

My BIGGEST concern along these lines is FORWARD visibility! I've read studies that suggest one of the reasons cagers (I thought I was the only one still using that term) don't see us is that we only have one eye. More lights (and BRIGHTER lights) forward help increase the likelihood of being noticed.

I've thought about strobes or modulated headlights, but that would SUCK at night for me as a rider. At least in a more rural setting. In town with all the streetlights maybe not so much. THAT option therefore in my mind would have to be switched so it could be used as needed but then we are back to what I think is a integral part of the question. How to make modifications that are not visible on the outside. Where to hide signals and auxiliary lighting and switches so the bike still looks outwardly stock.

Original style "pod on a pole" signals look good but are not "stock" for a 1969.

Stuart I have thought about adding the rear lift bar to my Doris and using the reflector holes to mount the pods on. There are also rear signals you can bolt onto the top bolt of your shocks.

I'm not a daily rider so I think I am going to try to find some positive earth LED's to mount on a license plate frame and just brighten up my stop lights to increase rear visibility. That in no way changes the original lines of the bike.

Up front I know I want to be able to run halogens in the original lens. They are out there with the standard Lucas base. That can't happen until I get a new stator on the old girl. Anything else up front ruins the lines.

The only other thing I can think of is to replace the pilot light with a brighter LED and then wiring it to a switch and modulating it. That would give more visibility but I'd have to find a place to hide a switch that is easy to access and hard to see. But if I'm going to do that I might as well just modulate the main beam and put a switch on it.

(Too early. Need more coffee before I can properly ideate!)

Let's keep this thread going guys and post PICTURES!

If you see an option on the road or online share it!
 
#37 ·
Hi,

I am going to try to find some positive earth LED's to mount on a license plate frame
If you buy the holders with two wires, no need to worry about "positive earth"-specific LED. LED themselves are only electrically-different from incandescent bulbs in that LED, like all diodes, only work with electricity passing in one direction, whereas incandescents don't care.

Certainly as standard, your bike already has Red wires connected to battery +ve and the other-coloured wires connected to battery -ve. When you fit indicators, you'll take the supply to the relay from a White wire (all White are connected to battery -ve through the ignition switch but are only 'live' when the switch is on), add a wire from relay to handlebar switch and wires from the switch to the indicators. These'll be connected to one of the aforementioned two wires into the LED 'bulb' holders; connect the other wire to the bike's Red wires; if the LED don't work connected this way 'round, simply swap the LED holder connections to the bike's wiring. :thumb

Up front I know I want to be able to run halogens in the original lens. They are out there with the standard Lucas base.
With apologies to the O.P. for possibly widening the "discussion" beyond indicators ...

Here I assume you mean the headlamp? Ime, this'll be a waste of money for two reasons - original lenses are rubbish and, because the original bulb fitting is BPF - British Pre Focus - the bulbs are only available from specialists, at ridiculous cost compared to a standard automotive halogen bulb.

There are any number of decent 7"-dia. headlamps but, if you're keen not to "change the original lines of the bike", convex lenses with a Lucas logo in the glass are available:-

. From '78, the Co-op started supplying US-market bikes with a headlamp similar to to the one Triumph and NVT'd been supplying the Europeans (except GB) for years before ('79-on Triumph 99-7060, Lucas 54522680). :( These take what's known as a P45t bulb, which are handily still readily-available in both 45/40 non-qh and 60/55 qh. Even the 45/40 bulb will put out a lot more light than a BPF bulb in the original lens, not requiring a new stator.

. However, P45t has been officially obsolete for several years and you might find asking for either of the above part numbers gets you a Lucas headlamp that takes a P43t bulb; these are only widely-available in 60/55 qh.

The only other thing I can think of is to replace the pilot light with a brighter LED
I've used qh pilot bulbs for years (Philips HMB21 20W) or recently a regular poster on BritBike pointed me at this (obviously look it up on Ebay.com).

then wiring it to a switch and modulating it.
If your bike has the correct lights toggle switch (35710 or 31788) on the headlamp shell, it switches the pilot lamp separately already (Red/Black wire from terminal 6), because the pilot's off when the headlamp's on and vice versa. With a modulator with a photocell suggested by Marc, no extra switches? :thumb

Hth.

Regards,
 
#31 ·
When the headlight modulators first came out for bikes in the mid 70's I thought it was a great safety feature. The were supposedly designed to "pulse" at a speed that the human mind could not ignore, whether you were looking at it or not. There are many kits available today and have a photocell that only makes them work during the day time.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Signal-Dyna...ash=item1e7e9ee53c:g:4h0AAMXQ6DBSFvEO&vxp=mtr
 
#33 ·
Indicators, like religion & politics, can be a touchy subject.

A very personal thing maybe best left to individual owners.

I came across a video clip of a bike builder whose headlamp incorporates the turn signal lamps providing an uncluttered streamlined look as an alternative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrjrCrKwJp8

Navigate to the 3 min 27 sec section.
I notice his only come on, but don't flash? I wonder how effective they are or how easy to see them when the headlight is on. Those are the ones I was referring to about not relying on others to be looking into my headlight for directional signals.
 
#36 ·
I know it isn't a turn signal and I know we want our lights to be esthetically pleasing and minimalistic. But this is just an accident waiting to happen. The dunce decide to integrate his brake light into the back of the seat subframe. OMG, that has to be a whole 1/2 square inch of light there. Certainly plenty big enough for everyone to realize you are stopping.
The lights and turn signals are there to save your life. some of the mods to these systems I've seen on current builds should not be allowed on the roads. This builder also plans on " Tiny little blinkers will be fitted too so they don't jump into view too much." The whole point is to be seen.


 
#38 ·
Good info Stuart.

I had a brain fart and forgot the pilot has it's own position on the original switch.

I WAS talking about the headlights. The pattern 446 bulbs suck. They aren't very sturdy and they aren't very bright even when putting out the proper amount of lumens.

7" sealed beam halogens with the H4 base is the quickest was to go about it and I've even heard of people drilling the body so they can run the pilot lamp as well but I am wanting to try THIS mofo and see what kind of beam it cast out of one of the pattern Lucas branded lenses.

I DO like having a lens with the Lucas cast into the glass so the cheap replacements are decent for what they are. I need one regardless because my original lens's reflective surfaces has faded just a little but enough to make the LED headlight not as bright as it could be.


I am currently running LED's in the tail lamp, pilot lamp and the headlight and my Doris STILL can't keep her battery charged all by herself so she at least needs a new 120w stator.

I have a different LED in my pilot but I have the one you linked to in my Watched List.

Here's my thoughts for the original question.

You take one of THESE and mount one of THESE across the bottom of the license frame where there is a nice wide spot. (You have to drill a hole for the wiring. Easy Peasy.) And then for the turn signals use THESE in amber, mounted vertically on the sides.

Now the red stop lamp has turn signal stuff in it and you can probabl find a cheaper unit that doesn't. I certainly HOPE I can find cheaper amber LED's but I haven't gotten to that point in the rebuild.

As for switching THIS is the cheapest EMGO I could find but I would prefer to find a Lucas 181SA switch rather than an early 70's switch which had the perches for the levers on them.

Now that's a steep price for a 181SA switch! Gonna have to see if my Triumph guy has one swimming around in his VAST caverns of parts!

And there's always THIS but man that's a cheap POS aint it.

Off to wrench on Doris. Have a great day Yall!
 
#39 ·
Hi,

one of THESE and mount one of THESE across the bottom of the license frame where there is a nice wide spot.then for the turn signals use THESE in amber, mounted vertically on the sides.

red stop lamp has turn signal stuff in it and you can probabl find a cheaper unit that doesn't. I certainly HOPE I can find cheaper amber LED's
"rambo" might chime in but he's posted before that he's had good experiences with "Eagle Eye" LED from Ebay.

The only thing that would concern me putting lights on the licence plate is that's low anyway, so the lights will be well away from drivers' eye lines, particularly if they're sitting in a SUV or big pickup?

for switching
would prefer to find a Lucas 181SA
that's a steep price for a 181SA switch!
You should've clicked on this link in my first post to the thread ... ;) However, as I noted then, even the Sparx is a lot more now than I paid, which is possibly why a genuine 181SA is advertised at that. :eek: Fwiw, I wouldn't buy the genuine cluster for a custom application; part of its value is it still has the pin connectors - crap though they were - whereas the first thing you'll do is chop 'em off and fit bullets. Just as a matter of interest, because the pin connectors were so much trouble, the Co-op reverted to individual bullet terminals on both handlebar clusters in '78, so there are genuine 181SA around with them. :thumb

I am currently running LED's in the tail lamp, pilot lamp and the headlight and my Doris STILL can't keep her battery charged all by herself so she at least needs a new 120w stator.
You sure it's a stator and not a rotor magnetism problem?

Hth.

Regards,
 
#40 ·
Original Lucas 181 SA switch is nearly impossible to find, and oriental copy's don't look good, I just used chinese universal left hand switch in black, looking ( IMHO ) better than anything in chromium I've seen.
$ 10 CAD, very small, very black with red letters.
 
#41 ·
The eagle eye in orange is the best type to hide away.Dazzlingly bright when using a 9 watt version and a total diameter of around 20mm.The surround is black.Easy to hide and i fitted 4 red ones to my Rocket 111 as two extra sidelights and two break lights.If tyou know the Rocket,its rear light is very small so i wanted to be seen a little better.I used 1.5w for the sides and 6w for the brakes.I will post this youtube link again to the ones on my T120 but these are red for side and brake.My original Lucas indicators are fine.Polarity is not a problem as they have a red and black wire input.
https://youtu.be/UCMYWFYU7hg
 
#42 ·
Thanks Rambo. You sound different than in the movies! You're actually easier to understand than Stallone and you speak a foreign language! :wink2:

I had already watched several of your vids not knowing you it was you.

I have those Eagle Eyes saved in my Amazon Watch List too! Good to know that they will work.

Thanks to you and Stuart I know to look for LED's with 2 wires and I'm g2g!

Getting closer to putting the rear end back together so I will have speed up my thinking on this.

And Stuart, you haven't seen the little blue hairs that cruise the streets here in Florida looking for mo mos to run over! The license plate IS at eye level for them!

>:)

Back to switching;

I did find a few aftermarket doodads in between priming and sanding Doris's bits today.

Here's a K&S brand offering that don't look too bad. About as good as the Sparx and quite a bit cheaper to boot. It comes with a complete wiring harness and wiring diagram.

K&S has a bunch of other styles of switch too but I haven't had time to wade through them all. Most seem to be black.

I actually ordered a cheapo Chinese one to play with when I start to wire her back up. Proof of concept for $8.69 USD and a 3 week wait!

Hon Kong Harry Special

Cheap pot metal for sure but to be honest the wiring looks heavier gauge than the K&S offering. That may just be the perspective of the picture. The K&S has a nicer finish though. Comparable to the Sparx.

Anyone else? Come on! This is a great thread! We've ALL probably thought about this at one time or another!
 
#43 ·
Thanks Rambo. You sound different than in the movies! You're actually easier to understand than Stallone and you speak a foreign language! :wink2:




And Stuart, you haven't seen the little blue hairs that cruise the streets here in Florida looking for mo mos to run over! The license plate IS at eye level for them!

>:)
And here all this time I thought they spoke English down under.

The problem with the blue hairs eye level with the license plate is that their eye level is 4" below their dash board.:grin2:
 
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