Triumphrat

exlimeydedbt · 11-21-2012, 09:20 AM

There is a totaly missed point here AUTOMOTIVE oils have had ZDDP taken out, 0-30,5-30,10-30 Etc. NOT 20-50,10-40, 15-50 etc.

Snakeoil · 11-21-2012, 09:57 AM

I'm no chemist nor oil expert. Nor have I played one on TV. But my understanding is the metals are glide metals and provide a type of lubricity that oil alone cannot. Remember lead in gasoline and the concern that without it, we would go thru valve seats like mad. And all modern engines now have hardened valve seats in them to deal with the absence of lead.

If you go on the Amsoil website, they provide some good technical info and one of this is info on the 3 ball wear test (might have gotten the name wrong). It is a test as I understand it where steel balls are run together in a bath of the oil being tested and then the balls examined to determine the depth of scratches on the surface. This is a layman's description from memory so please look at the website for details. As I understand it zinc compounds in the oil "cushion" for lack of a better term and provide some extreme pressure protection between the balls and thus reduce the wear/scratches. But I also understand that the zinc gets used up in the process and hence is one of the criteria behind a recommended oil change interval.

I'm sure that if you search ZDDP on the web, you'll get good explanations of it's use in lubricants.

Keep in mind that oil is not just slippery. It has to maintain a cushion between the moving parts. It's molecular structure plays a role in that and that is why motorcycles that share the oil between the tranny and the crankcase are much harder on oils due to the high pressure shearing the oil sees in the tranny. It basically chops up those long molecular chains and reduces the oils ability to stay between two mating surfaces under extreme pressure.

There is really a lot of info out on the web about oils. And they are not all the same. Just because they are new technology does not mean they are the right technology for a given application. I used to think motorcycle specific oil was pure snakeoil. But the more I learned the more I understood why the oils had to be different.

Last point is many of the new oils are being created to deal with gas mileage requirements and pollution requirements. So, some of the good things in oils are being removed and hence, the smart guys have to figure out how to make the oil perform as well without a key ingredient. Same goes for improving mileage. This means reducing viscosities while still maintaining a proper oil film between two components operating under extreme pressure. It's a delicate balance. And I suspect that in the process, some of the new oils may sacrafice engine life for gas mileage because they have not figured out a solution yet.

regards,
Rob

brid · 11-22-2012, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnA

That is an interesting article Loxx. The trouble with online forums is there are so many emphatically held opinions and preconceptions, all of which come pouring onto the page and causing a lot of confusion (and unnecessary worry to some people somethimes). I'm sure the old-fashioned straight oils do have their uses, but on bikes like our Triumph twins, with their combination of plain and roller bearings, a multigrade would seem far more suitable. Then the question becomes what grade, and syn/semi-syn/old-fashioned mineral?

Following this thread has been useful to me. I now know far more about what synthetic oils are than before I began, and I'm convinced that, as my bike has a proper filter, I ought to get hold of some Mobil 1 20/50 if I can. Trouble is, it doesn't seem available in UK for some weird reason. Does anyone know what the next best thing is? Or preferably, where I can get hold of some 20/50?

By the way, what is a Lookie Loo?

lookie loo

Besides referring to a person who looks at things with no intention of buying them, a special meaning is that of a person who holds up traffic by slowing down to look at an accident or fire or some other reality.

exlimeydedbt · 11-22-2012, 09:43 AM

Well said rob, i use Amsoilweb a lot, they seem pretty srt8 up, I remember many years ago, about twenty, Harley put out a service buliten,that synthetic oil was to .......slippy, they took them to court, and won, NOW HD sell synthetic, as for the gas mileage thing, some say use 5-20,crap! 20W saves about 0.01 MPG at the cost of engine wear at high engine revs

Snakeoil · 11-22-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brid

lookie loo

Besides referring to a person who looks at things with no intention of buying them, a special meaning is that of a person who holds up traffic by slowing down to look at an accident or fire or some other reality.

We call them rubber neckers over here.

regards,
Rob

loxx101 · 11-22-2012, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeoil

We call them rubber neckers over here.

regards,
Rob

Same in the UK!

brid · 11-23-2012, 12:23 AM

LOOKIE LOO
a special meaning is that of a person who holds up traffic by slowing down to look at an accident or fire or some other reality.
This was really meant as a metaphore for those not wanting to go forward/disbelieve what they read here because "someone else said different". If we all have to disagree to agree, I'm sure the oil companies will understand!!

lovecuba · 11-23-2012, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnA

That is an interesting article Loxx. The trouble with online forums is there are so many emphatically held opinions and preconceptions, all of which come pouring onto the page and causing a lot of confusion (and unnecessary worry to some people somethimes). I'm sure the old-fashioned straight oils do have their uses, but on bikes like our Triumph twins, with their combination of plain and roller bearings, a multigrade would seem far more suitable. Then the question becomes what grade, and syn/semi-syn/old-fashioned mineral?

Following this thread has been useful to me. I now know far more about what synthetic oils are than before I began, and I'm convinced that, as my bike has a proper filter, I ought to get hold of some Mobil 1 20/50 if I can. Trouble is, it doesn't seem available in UK for some weird reason. Does anyone know what the next best thing is? Or preferably, where I can get hold of some 20/50?

By the way, what is a Lookie Loo?

Morris 20/50 made in Britain, for air cooled motors. Have run it for years, gr8t stuff (but then again oil is oil)

www.morrislubricants.co.uk

I run their Supersport Semi Synth in the 885 & 955 @ 8000k filter/oil changes. Both bikes ridden very hard!

loxx101 · 11-23-2012, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovecuba

(but then again oil is oil)

If you are smashing up bangers, yes.

If you are running motors that'll outlast everything else, no. Otherwise oil companies wouldn't spend billions on oil development!

JohnA · 11-23-2012, 12:43 PM

Thanks for the Morris oil tip. I still want to find a source of Mobil 1 20/50 in the UK if at all possible, as this really does seem the best option for my bike (which, as mentioned previously, has a proper filter). Failing that, anyone know what the nearest thing is? Isn't there a 15/40 Mobil 1 (or is it 10/40?)?