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Classic, Vintage & Veteran For Coventry and Meriden Models. Anything pre-Hinckley goes.

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Old 05-18-2012, 04:23 AM   #21 (permalink)
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In there UK, to get Bi-Carb at a reasonable price, I went to an Oriental Supermarket and got a 4kg bag for a couple of quid.

My "English" supermarket would charge the same for a tiny tub
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:15 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The mystery has been solved, (I think). I drilled two 1/8 dia. holes at the base of the down tubes and about 1/2 cup of nasty watery muck came pouring out on my drill. The corrosion was coming from a section of the frame tube that did not have the seam welded. I will probably get the seams welded up but so far, no more corrosion. The white power residue was probably either from minerals in the water reacting with the air or the by product of having a positive ground system with water stagnating in the closed space. Turned it into battery acid maybe? Anyway. Problem seems to be solved.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorcycle5
The white power residue was probably either from minerals in the water reacting with the air or the by product of having a positive ground system with water stagnating in the closed space.
That debate has gone on for some time with no current(!)real answers.

My positive ground bike has never shown signs of corrosion on either of the battery terminals!

There are three Sears powersports lead -acid batteries from the past and my current(!) AGM battery now going on season 5.

My negative ground autos seem to corrode badly in a short(!) period of time and must be cleaned with baking soda from time to time.

Have read some interesting stories about + vs - ground, including the link to early phone systems.

Have seen some signs of corrosion within copper wires inside the headlamp shell when changeing out fugged up bullet and plastic 'pin' connections though!
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:26 PM   #24 (permalink)
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That is not an iron oxide, nor is it an iron chloride. It could be a number of more exotic iron compounds, or something else entirely. I can try to identify the it, but I need you to scrape some off and try to dissolve it in water, alcohol and acetone. The all solvents should be around 20 to 25 degrees Celsius. Weigh your solvents as precisely as possible before, and after you try to dissolve the stuff. Also weigh your sample before you dissolve it.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:28 PM   #25 (permalink)
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MC5,

Thanks for posting the follow up info on your issue. It was truly a brain teaser to say the least.

Did you save any of that secret potion to have analyzed. A simple PH test would be nice to know. Would love to know what that stuff was.

regards,
Rob
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:01 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Just a thought. With these being an oil in frame unit (assuming no significant alterations), the frame down tubes could prove to be an interesting collecting point for condensation. If any of the frame tubes were open to the crankcase gasses, this condensate could be a nasty mixture of oil, acids, combustion by products, and unburnt fuel. The front tubes would be the coolest temperature wise, as well as the lowest frame memebers for these vapors to collect. If a petcock was leaking, you could end up with this kind of scenario entirely too rapidly and may not even realize it.

All that being said, I think a pertinent question may be has anyone doing a "frame up" resto found evidence of this type of sludge in thier frames? This could potentially point us in the right direction....
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:51 AM   #27 (permalink)
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RII,
The short answer is no. The OIF bikes do not have any issues with collecting condensation or blow-by in the frame tubes. This was an extreme case. I think the cooked battery had something to do with it. You cannot pull more moisture out of the atmosphere than is available. The lower tubes are essentially sealed to outside atmosphere. The amount of water vapor available would be minimal. What collected in the frame tubes was not exactly water as evidenced by the type of corrosion that was caused. I think it was part battery acid.

Just a caution. I would test the integrity of that lower frame tube as that doesn't look like just surface rust. And if you did have part sulfuric acid inside the frame tube the insides will be compromised too.

Scott
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:24 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookster View Post
RII,
The short answer is no. The OIF bikes do not have any issues with collecting condensation or blow-by in the frame tubes. This was an extreme case. I think the cooked battery had something to do with it. You cannot pull more moisture out of the atmosphere than is available. The lower tubes are essentially sealed to outside atmosphere. The amount of water vapor available would be minimal. What collected in the frame tubes was not exactly water as evidenced by the type of corrosion that was caused. I think it was part battery acid.

Just a caution. I would test the integrity of that lower frame tube as that doesn't look like just surface rust. And if you did have part sulfuric acid inside the frame tube the insides will be compromised too.

Scott
I would agree that the frame tubes "should" be sealed. As the frames are largely welded up tubing, with the sections "butt jointed" against the outside of another tube, there should be a wall between. Wasn't sure if folks had seen penetration/opening due to the welding process. It was mentioned that there was a significant quantity of solution within each dwontube that was released by drilling 1/8" holes.

If the frames are sealed, there shouldn't be any opportunity for mositure/contamination of any type. I would think bettery acid would have a doubly hard time migrating into the frame.

Ultimately, I think it may be the mention of the "seams" that weren't welded that was the source of contamination, but again, just curious as to what others have noted....
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