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Classic, Vintage & Veteran For Coventry and Meriden Models. Anything pre-Hinckley goes.

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Old 11-25-2012, 04:15 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triton Thrasher View Post
That wouldn't be full flow filtering.
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Originally Posted by loxx101 View Post
How come? You would just have to reroute your oil system a bit which would be easy enough if you wanted the filter on the pressure side, pre crank. It would be the same as putting a filter on the scavenge as far as full flow goes.
Sounded like you were going to filter the oil after the relief valve had dumped most of it into the timing case.

The effects of the pump passing too much oil for the relief valve are well known. The seal on the crank nose is blown outside in and oil pressure drops to something very low.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:04 PM   #52 (permalink)
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This is getting to be an interesting debate! Just to explain why I felt the need to have two filters, this is because when I bought the bike as a running project, the (or a) previous owner had had the frame blasted & powder coated. That worried me from the moment I discovered that fact. I rode it the 20 miles home, via a pressure washer, then stripped it down to the last nut & bolt. No sign of grit damage in the engine, most probably due to there having been a B25 (or 'Charlie') filter in the bottom of the tank. It was very dirty but not blocked.

I thought I could feel some grittiness when I ran my finger round the inside of the oil tank, so I pressure washed, then steam cleaned the tank, them swilled it out 3 times with paraffin. Then continued to worry about the possibility of grit left in there.

I decided quite quickly to go for a Kirby Rowbotham filter, having done some research (including starting this thread). I was originally going to fit a new mesh strainer to the tank, but grit worries kept haunting me and I decided that fiting a new B25 filter wouldn't do any harm - and would at least ensure no damage to my nice new Morgo oil pump. So that's what I did. I must admit it does seem a bit unconventional, and I wouldn;t have done this if I'd felt confident that there could be no trace of grit in the frame. I will inspect the B25 filter very carefully when I remove it (soon), and if there's no trace of grit, I'll revert to the standard strainer.

I take the points above re. the K.R conversion involving extra high-pressure oil plumbing that could spring a leak, and with very messy results if it ever did. I would feel happier with this system if it had more positive connectors (eg: screw-in rather than push & lock connectores), and armoured oil lines. I might try to modify it myself in that direction, but I've heard from several others who have used this conversion just as it comes for years without any problems.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:17 PM   #53 (permalink)
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If the frame has been grit blasted, you have no choice but to use the Charlie's filter, or get another frame.

The KR conversion will not protect the oil pump from grit. You will never get the inside of the frame clean of grit. Never.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:48 PM   #54 (permalink)
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If the frame has been grit blasted, you have no choice but to use the Charlie's filter, or get another frame.

The KR conversion will not protect the oil pump from grit. You will never get the inside of the frame clean of grit. Never.
That's just what I was saying. You and I might not be right, but unless someone can prove beyond all doubt that there's no trace of grit in my frame, I'll assume there is. I don't know why people have their OIF frames blasted, it seems such a risk.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:15 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Sandblasting

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That's just what I was saying. You and I might not be right, but unless someone can prove beyond all doubt that there's no trace of grit in my frame, I'll assume there is. I don't know why people have their OIF frames blasted, it seems such a risk.
I had my OIF frame sand blasted and spent quite some time concerned about grit retention. That is until a friend turned up with petrol powered water blaster with a flexible hose attached to the nozzle (he is a Plumber). The nozzle could be set for 'jet' action or spray and was ultra powerful. We used this contraption for some time giving the hollow frame a real going over. Then we inserted high powered light on another flexible shaft that was attached to a small TV screen and could see every nook and cranny. Clean as a whistle!
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:33 AM   #56 (permalink)
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If you are wanting to shotblast inside the tank, why not just cut the whole thing out, blast it, weld it back in? If you get someone good to do it you'll never see any difference and it'll be easily as strong as before. That's what I was going to do anyway but my plans have changed a bit.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:06 PM   #57 (permalink)
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My first car was a Peugeot 304 which had about 80,000 miles on it and was close to 10 years old. One winter morning driving to work, it would not warm up, every time I came up to a junction I had to pull the choke out to keep it running even though it was a 35 mile trip to work. Long story short when I came to replace the thermostat I found a fairly large piece of aluminum mould flashing, from inside the cylinder head, stuck in the thermostat preventing it from closing. Since then I've always been a little nervous as to what could be inside a motor just waiting to get loose due to corrosion or vibration. The spine of the frame is quite big void and who knows what could be hiding there and when it will decide to come loose. For that reason I like the idea of the Charlies filter and would like to use one. Are there any documented cases of one of these filters actually causing oil starvation or any problem with regular oil changes and maintenance on a stock motor? I have a number of different hobbies and I've noticed that in most of them there is a product/situation where there is a theoretical problem that gets exaggerated over time in to "don't ever buy one of those" and kind of becomes folklore which is repeated and preached to all, but is based on very little in terms of actual cases. I have no personal experience in this area, and don't know anyone who runs Triumph OIF bikes, so I'm just looking for answers, not trying to tell anyone they are wrong.

Last edited by redhawk4; 11-26-2012 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:06 PM   #58 (permalink)
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To be fair, the bloke I bought my bike from ran it for years with a Norton screw on filter on the suction line. Stripping it down it's all good. Bearings all looked great, no problems. Cylinders were seized but that was due to being left in the rain

I believe the bike was built like that in '86 and ran until 5 years ago really well and covered far more than average mileage.

The bloke also has an 8v and an 880cc stroker T140 which has had some major work on it running some serious power (for a Triumph). He's ran all his bikes like this and never had any problems.

To be fair, I like talking about things from a theoretical perspective. Realistically you could run everything on one grade of oil and it would work. It may not work for as long or for as well but it'll work. Maximising potential in engineering is something I love. This is why I am going to do a degree in motorsport engineering! Love it. Don't want to stop learning. I stopped for a couple years and hate it!
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:11 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Loxx that's interesting, you'd think that set up would be more restrictive than the Charlies filter because you have only the small inlet pipe into the filter rather than the filter being immersed in a bath of oil.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:13 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Sandblasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by loxx101 View Post
If you are wanting to shotblast inside the tank, why not just cut the whole thing out, blast it, weld it back in? If you get someone good to do it you'll never see any difference and it'll be easily as strong as before. That's what I was going to do anyway but my plans have changed a bit.
I did not intentionally place grit in the frame, even went to some extent to prevent so by trying to seal all entry and exit points with tape and rubber bungs. Being so very intrusive a small amount of blasting media found it's way in.
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