Triumphrat

tri650 · 11-08-2005

Update: My brother in law came over last night and we started to tear into this thing. First, I did hook up the hoses wrong. I thought I followed the diagram in one of the manuals but I guess the diagram was not correct. Second, it did not sieze the pistons. Here is what we did. I force fed oil into the top rockers via the line. We started it up and it was barely spitting oil out of the top of the oil tank - and that oil was dark and ugly. Also, nothing was being fed into the top rocker box feed line. So, we decided to look at the oil pump. It seemed to be working fine - no hang up on the pistons. Oil was dripping out of the hole where the feeder line from the tank came in - so the line was not clogged from the feeder. Then, we took out the bottom drain plug to see if it was clogged - it was clean. It appears that something is going on that is not allowing oil to be fed back into the tank. Any other things I should be testing?

My plan - I will put everything back together and fill the crankcase with oil and start it up. Not sure if having a full crankcase full of oil will help but I won't run it that long - just to see if oil is being circulated. Will this work? Should I be encouraged that it started right up and was not clacking once I put oil in it? Am I delusional in thinking I did not do major damage?

Also, thanks to everyone who replied to this email. Nice to know there is a support group for people who do stupid things.

GrandPaulZ · 11-08-2005

I would be prety worried with the previous clacking sounds; it's more than likely that there is damage that needs to be fixed or you'll be riding a grenade with the pin pulled.

You should not have too much oil in the crankcase, one cup is a lot.

DAGAD · 11-09-2005

I agree with GPZ, more than a cup in there will give you a real problem starting it and then it will want to pump it out via anywhere it can find, together with lots of smoke.
Grenade............pin...............?????
Roy

vik · 11-09-2005

Before anything you should further check the workings of the oil pump preferably by turning the engine over by hand and not under its own power. In fact I wouldn't start it up again at all before making absolutely sure that the oil is indeed returning into the tank.

Filling up the crankcase is as the others say a bad idea which could create other problems. A cupful is more than enough to provide splash feed to the crankshaft and pistons.

We weren't there to listen to it but by your description of the horrible sound the engine made, it does give the impression that something did break somewhere, a fact which you can't simply ignore now and hope for the best, just like Paul says when he makes reference to a grenade with the pin pulled.

Anyway it's your call as you were the one to witness it.

[ This message was edited by: vik on 2005-11-09 05:51 ]

panda · 11-13-2005

VIK is right,
if you cant get oil pressure by kicking it over then either or both the pump and big ends are shot...
note also there is a small bearing on the timing side of the cranshaft that controls oil feed, if this is twisted in its housing, no oil will get to your big ends ( but you will get lots of pressure ), splash feeding is a waste of time, big ends need 'pressure' .
the oil return is just that, it returns oil that has passed through your big ends,,, ( also low pressure lubricates the rockers /valves)
do you not have the spring loaded oil pressure plunger ??
My guess is you have ruined the big ends, and maybe done some bore/piston damage. the main bearings are roller/ball so probably are ok.
you might be able to save the crank.

red59 · 11-14-2005

If the engine was getting NO oil, it would have been so hot.dirt,grease, even fingerprints would have been smoking on it. You would have noticed a smell like a dirty electric stove starting up. Check the scavenge (return Line). Take the scavenge plate off, put a hose on it and suck on the hose. You should not be able to suck air through it. The hose should,according to the manual, collapse. If it collapses it should be ok. If you can suck air through it then it is broken or cracked.
Some good news when you do this would be a lot of oil comming out of the crankcase when you take the scavenge plate off. If this return line is cracked the oil would not return to the tank or pump up to the rockers, but the feed line would have oiled evrything else.
You say the hoses were backwards on the diagram is suspicious.
Bad news would be you have to split the cases to fix this return line. When you reassemble the engine, use engine assembly grease where friction is created and oil would be necessary . Get a Clymer manual. In my opinion they are excellent. P.S. clean the sludge trap in the crank, this is often overlooked.

[ This message was edited by: red59 on 2005-11-14 00:25 ]

vik · 11-14-2005

Hey Red,

You wouldn't catch me sucking on any oil lines ! Fuel lines, maybe, in case of a real emergency and to siphon some from someone else's fuel tank. But oil ? No way, José !

I don't even think your test will bring anything useful, to check broken or cracked lines, block one exit and with a compressor blow some air up the line. If oil is in there it will come out through cracks if there are any.

red59 · 11-15-2005

VIC I'm not pulling anyones leg here. That hose sucking technique is in the shop manual. I've never had to do it. Checked it out good at rebuild.
This comes from the 'stick in the spark plug hole' to find TDC tech.
In this fellows case, I would check it out. A cracked return pipe inside the cases & no oil goes back. I think the reason you have to suck on the hose as opposed to blowing into it has to do with the shut off pump valve ball seating.
Maybe after 50 years, someone came up with a better idea.
Perhaps a big syringe srewed into the hose and pull out the plunger?
Just don't let the EPA know what we do. Oh well, some people drink antifreeze.

tridentt150v · 11-15-2005

Anyway, think of how lubed up we'd be if we got a gutful of oil. I reckon my knees and elbows might even work without creaking again!!!!!!.......lol