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Classic, Vintage & Veteran For Coventry and Meriden Models. Anything pre-Hinckley goes.

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Old 11-27-2012, 01:32 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Have metered after long highway runs and barely out of the 160's. Hills are few and far between here, unless you include overpasses. Maybe just me, but having left my bike sitting in the sun all day, ambient has made a large diffence in starting temps. Have even noticed oil still being warmer than ambient after sitting for several hours, but haven't had my temp gun to check it, frame/oil has just been hot to the touch prior to legging it. Have tried metering flow temp straight from the return feed, but can't get a solid read on anything but the tube itself (180's usually). Again, curious to see if anyone has had a temp gauge in the filler neck, etc and what has been thier range. Will continue to monitor and see what further variances occur...
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:51 AM   #62 (permalink)
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What about returning the oil through the existing tank vent and adding another vent higher up the frame?
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:19 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JohnA View Post
Here's my thoughts for what they're worth: Extra oil capacity seems to me a definitely good thing. One of the main mods John Young carried out to his Iron Butt Rally T150 was to almost double the volume of the oil tank. His near-10,000 miles in 11 days journey was through all kinds of weather, not only desert heat but cold rainstorms. The results, in his case, seem to indicate that there was certainly no harm in increasing oil capacity and very probably quite a lot of good in it.

Whether the T140 frame has a better cooling effect on the oil or not, to have reduced the oil volume compared to pre-OIF models seems a backward step. I didn't previously realise that Triumph had intended to have the filler neck behind the steering head as per B50/TR5T etc., though it always seemed illogical not to have done so. Why they chaged this design to what we ended up with seems a bit of a mystery. The principle that increasing the oil capacity to at least what the pre OIF T120s had seems unquestionable to me.

I don't like the idea of leaving the return pipe outlet where it is, and submerging it in oil. The B50 OIFrames had the return pipe up by the filler, and a breather a little higher up (not far above the maximum oil level). I rode a B50 for over 20,000 miles and never had any problems with oil escaping from the breather, and never noticed any oil frothing. That was up to 1983, so 'modern' oils weren't available then, it was plain old Duckhams Q.

I had a T140 frame modified to have the filler by the stering head (Nick Parravani did the modification work - this included re-routing the return pipe, blanking-off the original filler neck, and adding a new filler neck and breather pipe copied directly from my B50). Unfortunately I had that frame grit blasted and stove enamelled and when I found loads of grit inside, I couldn't bring myself to risk using it and sold it. It must be out there somewhere, reg: PEX 751R if anyone knows where it is! I have a spare frame and I might well do the same thing again - I'll wait to hear what your findings are first though LoveCuba!
I've just read an old article on the Bennett and son T140 that won the 1978 Avon tyres-Bike magazine production race series and it said they modified the frame so the whole centre tube carried oil nearly 8 pints instead of the normal 5, I guess it must have been similar to your frame John, was the new filler neck easily accessible with the tank in place, it was a shame you let it go
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:35 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Think again on extra oil for the OIF.If you make a cylinder shape to the quantity of oil you want.Put an oil pipe size junction at the top and bottom,connect the oil return hose to the bottom and the other end of the hose to the top.Fit the cylinder in front of the oil tube frame,or sideways.No problems with oil too high,dipstick exactly the same,no problems at all.I have done this type of thing using large diameter copper tube.The oil temperature after 20 miles at 70mph is 32 degrees c in the oil tube.That is very cool but seems to have no problems running that temp with a 20/50 modern oil
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:01 PM   #65 (permalink)
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The thread has taken a couple of circular paths over its course. Personally, I think added oil capacity is a good thing, for the oil if nothing else. But treating the oil better ends up treating your engine better.

Jim Ballard mentioned adding more oil to the pre-OIF tank but be careful not to cover the oil return. Mr. Pete also mentioned an issue with that here. I suspect that the added back pressure to the return line would just pump more oil to the rockers when running, which is probably a good thing unless it is more than the scavenge pump can handle. Not sure what the flow to the rockers looks like. The vent on the pre-OIF is above the oil return line so no chance of running back down, unless it gets splashed into the vent tower and back down during operation.

I asked this in another thread, but never saw an answer. Does anyone know what percentage of the cooling comes from the oil? I'll bet it is more than we think.

regards,
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:33 PM   #66 (permalink)
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My engine remains very hot after a long run but oil is at 33c.Thats with extra oil capacity,an external filter and extra copper pipe tank which,is a small assembly cooled by a 12 volt computer fan if I switch it on.At present,now I have measured the oil temp,it will not need a fan.Not much flow of oil in the engine for the oil to cool it down much.The big frame tube is a very efficient oil cooler
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:06 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo View Post
Think again on extra oil for the OIF.If you make a cylinder shape to the quantity of oil you want.Put an oil pipe size junction at the top and bottom,connect the oil return hose to the bottom and the other end of the hose to the top.Fit the cylinder in front of the oil tube frame,or sideways.No problems with oil too high,dipstick exactly the same,no problems at all.I have done this type of thing using large diameter copper tube.The oil temperature after 20 miles at 70mph is 32 degrees c in the oil tube.That is very cool but seems to have no problems running that temp with a 20/50 modern oil
I'm sure I'm just being a bit dim here Rambo, but I can't understand what you mean by all this. Any chance you could expand?
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:37 PM   #68 (permalink)
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John,cut the return line as this is where you are going to fit the parts.Make up a grid of copper pipe fittings.I used 15mm and made a set of tubes around 6 inches square.At the top and bottom,i fitted a small oil pipe size in and out.Brake fluid copper pipe. and just connect the pipes back to these two ends.The fact that the oil is now travelling very slow through the pipes gives it time to cool.I then clamped a 6 inch diameter computer fan over the square pipe arrangement that is now sitting in front of the frame oil pipe.manual on/off switch for the fan.It cools so effectively that the fan is not needed.
Same as a normal oil cooler but costs very little and fits in the gap behind the engine easily.Use 22 mm pipes and even more cooling but the adaptors to get it down to small oil pipe size take up a lot of room.Next time out,i will take a note of the miles and then put the temp probe into the tank.This week ambient temp 20c,oil33c.Without fan
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:25 PM   #69 (permalink)
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This summer I contemplated fitting an oil cooler to my 750 Tiger but after chatting with a few chaps on the forum I decided against it. It seemed the problem with the oil temp becoming excessive on the OIF triumph may be a little overstated.

My own experiments/tests appear to concur, I used a 0-100deg/C thermometer to measure the temp of my oil at the filler neck after various types of riding and in varying ambient temperatures, the hottest obviously not as hot as some of the temps our friends in the US have to ride in but we have had some pretty hot days this year. The temp of my oil never got above 60deg/C, this does not appear to be excessive for a modern 20/50, I also think I have read that oils perform best once warmed up and it is actually possible to over cool oil.

The trips I took the measurements after were after returning from work which is a 25mile trip of mixed riding and one long,fast trip fully loaded with camping gear from Kings Lynn (dirt quake weekend!) to Derby, there was hardly any difference between the two. I think the size of the frame makes it a very good heat sink.

I can't vouch for the frames ability to cool the oil in extremely hot temperatures but it seems perfectly fine for the temps we experience in the UK
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:07 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I wrote a response Rambo, but it seems to have vanished so I'll try again! Thanks for the detail, I can now see what you meant. My main thinking behind increasing oil capacity is simply that any given amount of contamination will be more diluted in a greater volume of oil, eg: twice the oil = half the contamination over the same mileage, meaning doub;le the oil should last twice as long. Which could be handy when touring abrouad, where it seems very ahrd to find 20/50 and the typical 10/40 that is available is way too thin in southern France or Spanish summer temperatures. An oil cooler would no doubt help too, but more oil seems a basically good idea to me.
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