Triumphrat

lovecuba

Redhawkk4 has I believe answered all that!

JohnA

Norman Hyde does seem to have some strange ideas. The notion that the oil filler position was moved at the last moment so that people wouldn't mistakenly try to fill the frame with petrol seems as daft as the claim that Triumph decided to de-tune the T140 engine by fitting a Spitfire inlet cam.

The oil-in-frame Adventurers, B50s and B25s had the filler in front of the tank: these bikes were designed and manufactured by the same people.

I doubt whether anyone would be so moronic as to first undo the oil filler cap, then get as far as trying to get the petrol pump nozzle into it, and still continue with what by then would be obviously the wrong thing to do!

redhawk4

I have to say I've always thought the same thing John, anyone who would confuse the little screw on cover of the oil filler with the large chrome cap on the fuel tank is probably too stupid to own a motorcycle anyway. I could imagine them pulling the badge out of the top of the tank and then complaining they couldn't get fuel in there either Who knows who made the decision, but there were definitely people that stupid in Triumph's management at the time whoknew nothing about motorcycles either.

triumpt120rv

I've heard that they couldn't figure out a way to keep the oil from foaming so at the 11th hour settled for a lower intake location thus reducing capacity. Who knows though.

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lovecuba

Both the oil foaming issue and a general hubris over placement resulting in what we have today and has been the subject of occasional debate over the years.
The oil foaming issue has been put to bed by the evolution of modern oils, if that (the issue) was ever out of bed that is.
In my view, the more stored oil the better and I personally see that huge empty space as a waste, just needing to be filled with-- oil.
Will have an oil pressure gauge fitted so will not find the need to remove the cap to check return flow.
This topping up of the oil capacity is going to be an experiment, if it all pans out then good! If it becomes a problem or hassle its back to normal

triumpt120rv

I don't think you will have a problem. More oil means extended viscosity and purity retention period which translates into a better/longer running engine in terms of wear and heat. Don't see any drawbacks. Good luck.

P.S. Also puts a much needed new spin on an oil thread.

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redhawk4

I'm assuming that the vent was in a different place on the frame when they had the filler at the front on the experimental models?

I like more oil capacity, my BMW holds close to 4 liters/4 US Quarts, my OIF Honda XR650l about 2 1/2 US Quarts/liters. If nothing else the bigger reserve in the BMW is less likely to heat up as quickly when pressing hard for a few miles like a long uphill climb than when there is less oil in the system. On my XR650l I have an oil temperature gauge that fits in the filler/dipstick hole on the front of the frame so you can monitor oil temps as you go, a long uphill thrash or a low speed steep trail off road can get that relatively small amount of oil heated up by 30 -50 degrees pretty quickly on a warm day. So I'm thinking my Tiger could probably do something similar to it's oil temperature in about the same amount of time or less. I've seen an oil cooler for sale that holds 0.6 US Quart which I'm thinking of fitting as this would give a useful extra capacity along with some cooling too. I do think a larger reservoir of oil helps to keep your oil temperature more consistent.

I'm not sure adding more to the frame is entirely practical, but I have worked out a way it could be done that would allow easy filling and checking of the level with out any permanent modifications being needed.

Mr.Pete

I'm sure there are other reasons for moving the filler cap to its lower position,including the likelyhood of oil sloshing out the oil tank breather tube under braking and then being fed to the crankcase breather hose.At best,it will end up in the chaincase and temporarily raise the oil level.At worst,it would be blown out the breather hose.

There is not much to gain by increasing capacity,except a longer mileage between oil changes.The oil tank temperature is normally too cold,and an oil heater would be more appropriate than an oil cooler.

Any amount of oil added above the return outlet will surely seep back through the rocker spindles and flood the crankcase.No-one wants an extra litre of oil in the crankcase.

I'm sure Triumph deliberately fitted a hot intake cam to the T140 to reduce low and mid-range torque.It was then retarded,to make the engine more gutless below 6000 rpm.The exhaust cam duration was less than ideal above 4200 rpm,so you lost at both ends of the rpm range.
Overlap didn't change much,so the engine still idled OK.

redhawk4

Great, I'll be excited to hear how it goes, perhaps by then I will have found the parts I have in mind that would allow the frame to be filled further and level still checked.

triumpt120rv

I assumed the return outlet was also going to be moved above the oil full level at the top of the frame.

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