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Classic, Vintage & Veteran For Coventry and Meriden Models. Anything pre-Hinckley goes.

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Old 04-25-2010, 09:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Boyer Micro MKIII Question

I just acquired a 1978 Triumph T140V with a Boyer Micro MKIII ignition system installed. The bike ran a year ago, but sat out in the weather since, and now it doesn't. When I crank over the engine, with the plugs out and touching the head, I sometimes get spark and sometimes don't.

First Question: The first thing I did was put a new battery in and only after the fuse blew on cranking did I realize that I had connected the battery backwards. (What can I say -I'm a newbie.) Is the Micro MKIII protected against idiots like me, or have I damaged it and this is the source of my problem.

However, even after this catastrophe, on a couple of occasions after a lot of kicking I did get the engine to fire up, and once it did, it ran for as long as I let it. But these successes were few and far between.

Other Info:
- Put in new plugs.
- Cleaned up all connections/contacts.
- Battery is well charged.
- Bypassed ignition/kill switch (-wired Boyer box directly to battery).
- Tested the 2 x 12V coils individually using a coil tester and they seem good. (I understand 6V coils might be better.)
- Checked the pickup coils and magnets and they seem in good order. (130 Ohms between the two wires (BLK/YEL & BLK/WHT) at the input to the black box and the impedance doesn't change when I touch/press the pickup coils.
- Verified that BLK/WHT at the pickup goes to BLK/WHT at the Boyer box, and the same for BLK/YEL.
- I do get a spark when I touch/disconnect the two inputs to the box (BLK/YEL & BLK/WHT).

Any suggestions/help provided is greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
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m_man,

You've done all the regular checks, and if you get spark when you touch the b/w and b/y wires together, your Boyer should be OK.

What kind of spark plug leads and caps are you running? If they're suppressor leads or caps, you'll have problems getting a decent spark with the 2 x 12V coils. Measure the leads and plug caps - disconnect from coils and plugs and measure resistance end-to-end. If more than a few ohms (eg if they read 5Kohms), then they are suppressor leads. If you're going to stick with 12V coils, try copper-core leads, and non-suppressor caps. If you already have copper core leads and straight through caps (no suppressor resistor inbuilt), then go for the 6V coils.

I had similar issues using 12V coils and Boyer MkIII, with copper leads, and as soon as I went to 2 x 6V coils, my issues went away.

What plugs are you running? Again, if they are resistor plugs, replace with standard Champion N3's.

HTH
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm using NGK B8ES plugs and my leads measure ~ 0 Ohms, so sounds like the recommendation is to try 6V coils. Any suggested brand/model?
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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boyer ignition

hi,boyers ignition recommend with a mk111 system that you use two 6 volt coils you will get a weak spark using 12 volt coils also if you go on boyers website they do a very good fault finding list if you have trouble and if that fails you can phone them for info worked for me!
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Here's what you gotta have....
• FRESH high-test fuel you've purchased yourself within the last 2 weeks. Both in the tank AND the float bowls. Chevron or Texaco with Techron will really help you.
• NGK B7ES (B8's are too cold)
• Hot battery
• Chokes turned OFF (Are your carbs rounded Mk I's, or squared off Mk II's ????)
• Compression

Installing your battery backwards may have blown out your regulator if you don't have the stock electronics.
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the tips everyone. I did a couple more tests and have some new information.

I pulled both plugs and held them against the head. Then I pulled the cover and moved an external magnet in and out over each pickup coil. I am able to induce a spark in this way which tells me I've got basic connectivity as expected and that the pickup coils function. (However the magnet I was using seems quite a bit stronger than the ones mounted to the plate.)

Next, I wired up the Boyer to only drive one coil at ~ 3 Ohms to simulate the effect of using 6V coils as recommended. When I touch/disconnect the two inputs to the Boyer, it seems the spark at the plug looks brighter as expected. After this I tried again to kick over the engine with the single coil connected, just to look for spark, and still I don't see much activity.

So - the pickup coils appear to basically function, and the Boyer functions if I "brute force" the inputs, but if I have the normal inputs connected from the pickup coils I rarely see spark at the plugs. Does this make any sense to anyone?
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:33 AM   #7 (permalink)
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m_man,

At what point are you disconnecting the pickup leads - at the boyer box, at the pickup, at the junction under the tank? I suspect you're doing it at the Boyer box end.

Try doing it at the pickup plate end, and see if you get the same results. What I'm thinking is that you might have poor cable connections that perform OK under high voltage conditions (super magnet, or multimeter) but poorly under small voltage conditions. Check for dirty connections, or broken strands on wires (especially under the tank).

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Old 04-28-2010, 01:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Exclamation +1 for Mr Bloke

Listen to Mr. Bloke.

The voltage in the BLK/YEL and BLK/WHT points leads was 12V when you ran your stock battery-coil ignition with points. 12V overcomes a LOT of poor wiring and corroded connector issues.

However, now that you have EI, the voltage in those same 2 wires is down to something like 3V. This tiny voltage is hugely affected by the tiniest bit of corrosion. So now with EI those 2 wires and ALL their connectors have to be in 100% pristine, top-of-the-line condition to even begin to think about working. Follow?


If your computer at 5V wouldn't work with the quality of the wiring and connectors that you expect your EI to work with.... then it probably won't!!


Whatley's First Law of Brit Bikes: The day you fit EI is the first day you start taking care of your wiring, or the last day you ride.


You can quote me on that!
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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My 2 cents worth. Even with a new wiring harness and a new Boyer Micro Power setup, (I used their coil), performance was spotty. After much reading I came across the fact that the Boyer Micro Power is susceptible to electromagnetic interference. When I replaced the connections between Boyer components with shielded twisted pair the problems disappeared.

Good luck.
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The largest issue with Boyer is their installation instructions. You have to read between the lines, and even then.... It's all there, plainly stated in black and white, but you have to read it like an engineer reads a technical manual for a piece of high-tech equipment. You can't be an average Joe and skip large portions of the instructions because you think you know what they're talking about.
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