Triumphrat

TxTiger · 12-21-2009, 08:38 PM

Hey Rob, and others, we had a good discussion on this subject about 3 to 4 weeks ago in a previous post; however, as you know, the picture function of the site was not working, and I wasn't able to see your before and after cleaning pics of your tank. After looking at thoses pics now, just before I'm ready to seal, I think I need to re-screw shake and re-metal prep. My tank has some built up rust that yours appears to have never had. My tank looks worse than yours prior to you cleaning.

I have attached some pics (not real good ones), but I think I need to redo some steps, what do you and others think? There still appears to be a lot of built up rust still in there, do you think more screw shaking and more metal prep will help remove any more of this before I seal, and based on the appearance of the tank, don't you think I should seal?

Thanks,
Ron

TxTiger · 12-21-2009, 08:48 PM

Sorry, forgot the pics.

burnhamt · 12-21-2009, 10:55 PM

TxTiger,

Did you use POR 15 to do your clean out? I am Curious because I ordered this product and am waiting for it to arrive! Was the process difficult?

Any help would be appriciated!

Thanks

Tim

TxTiger · 12-22-2009, 12:10 AM

Hey Tim. There are three steps to the POR15 sealer. I've gone through step two, which is complete prep, ready to seal. Step 1, the Marine Clean, is a strong degreaser that removes the gunk from the tank. Snakeoil tried this in the past and had some damage to his original paint, and recommended not using the Marine Clean. I already had the kit prior to my post (linked below), and it was recommended by my area classic Triumph shop. If you read the post below, it will give you a lot of good info on how to generally approach cleaning and sealing your tank. Snakeoil linked a previous post on the second page of the post below that was really informative. He seems to have done this many times and that's why I'm asking him whether I need to go further with prep.

Here's what I've found, definitely get the stopper that Snake recommends getting in his linked post. Keeping stuff from oozing out with duct tape will not work. I removed my petcocks and put cork plugs in by threading them in. Got a very good seal there. But using duct tape to seal off the area where the gas cap goes doesn't work.

I wrapped my tank in about 15 yards of plastic wrap and taped everything arpound the neck, but stuff still oozed out and got under the wrap while I was shaking it, so the stopper Snake discusses will solve that issue and keep the worry out of heavy duty chemicals getting on your paint.

I think I will get the stopper for the gas cap area, try and get more rust out, re metal prep it, and then seal it with the POR15. If my tank looked better inside, like Snakeoils in his pics, I would consider not sealing it. Attached some pics of the process. The first shows the garabage that came out of the tank after shaking wood screws in it, the next shows the wrap and positioning the tank in various positions for complete coverage, and the last shows drying the inside prior to sealing.

POR has a great product, I think you'll be with the results.

johnquinnell had some great advice on refitting your tank in the link below, be sure and read that.

Good luck,
Ron

http://www.triumphrat.net/classic-vi...k-removal.html

RetroRod · 12-22-2009, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxTiger

After looking at thoses pics now, just before I'm ready to seal, I think I need to re-screw shake and re-metal prep. My tank has some built up rust that yours appears to have never had.
.....but I think I need to redo some steps, what do you and others think?

......and based on the appearance of the tank, don't you think I should seal?

Thanks,
Ron

You don't mention here if the tank leaks, and I am presuming it does not, just rusting away inside.

I think the answer is yes to all your questions. That is active rust in there. Apart from removing the scale and surface rust, the rusted metal needs to be neutralised with an acid.

The sealer used for fuel tanks will seal best on the treated rusted surface, it may not grip so well to clean bright metal, and so the risk is that over time, the sealer may "lift" away from these sections.

This does not mean the seal will fail, because in reality the sealer just simply creates a "bag" inside the metal container, attached better in some places than in other,

The more you do to clean off the scale, neutralise the rust with a converter, and otherwise prepare the surface for the sealer, the better outcome you will have. "Do it once, do it right" RR

TxTiger · 12-22-2009, 12:54 AM

Thanks for the input RR. You know how everything is relative, and I thought I had prepped pretty good, but after seeing Snakes pics, I look pretty lame in my attempt. It looked better before it "flashed rusted" after rinsing, but I do have a lot of heavier spots that I'm going to spend more time on. I have already rinsed it with phos acid to neutralize the rust, but I don't think I spent enough time shaking the screws. The tank seems pretty solid without leaks, but I know rust never sleeps and like you said, do it right the first time.

Ron

Snakeoil · 12-22-2009, 11:54 AM

First, I'm not an expert on sealing tanks. I actually prefer to not seal them if they can live without it. I use phosphoric acid for that very reason because it leaves a zinc coating behind that prevents future rusting.

You can spill the acid on your paint and if you mop it off right away, you should be okay. Could depend on your paint. I just cleaned the tank on my Suzuki which has fresh paint. Long story, but another painter got the inside wet and then put new tape over the mouth. When I got it back from my good painter and pulled off the tape there was rust inside. I ran it for the summer and just fixed it earlier this month. I got acid on the paint with zero damage. But it is modern urethane paint.

Okay, back to cleaning. The process is not quick. And your tank looks kinda ugly inside. It looks like it needs a few more trips around the dance floor with the sheet rock screws. Another step I've used in the past to clean a tank is to put about a quart of mineral spirits in the tank along with the screws. This helps flush out the rust and crud that is loosened. Pour it thru an old T-shirt into a jug to filter out the crap and then go at it again. I also tend to think that the liquid helps the screws do their work. Puts a little pressure on them.

Once all the loose stuff is free, and the mineral spirits have dried, put in the phos acid. I would suggest you get a couple of 1/4" pipe plugs for the petcock bungs. Yes, they are tapered, but they will do a better job of sealing. Put some teflon tape on them and just snug them. You will not damage the threads in the bungs as long as you don't over-tighten them. And get that 1-5/8" plumber's plug for the tank neck. I just used the same plug doing my Suzuki. The trick to the phos acid is it needs some time to work. Pout it in, slosh it around and let it sit. If the bottom of the tank is the worst, then let it sit with the acid on the bottom. If it is all over the inside, then slosh it around every 15 minutes or so to keep the surfaces wet. Then it's just a matter of patience. Temperature plays a role so if you are working outdoors in winter temps, it will take longer. I did mine in the house, but would not recommend that. Phos acid is not dangerous, but it is an irritant. Even outside I've irritated my nasal passages from prolonged exposure. Wear a mask if you are doing it indoors, just to be safe.

My guess is you have a few hours of soaking before that tank starts to look decent inside. My Suzuki took about 2 hours before I was happy.

Now, I have not used POR 15 sealer. I'm about to use a Caswell kit on two old Honda S90 tanks, one with about 7 or so pinholes from rust. But I have used POR-15 coating for other stuff. It likes rusty, rough surfaces. It does not like smooth surfaces. So the sheetrock screw process is good to roughen up the internal surfaces to you get good adhesion. I've heard of problems with failed POR tank coatings and my understanding is most of them are due to improper prep. That's one reason I prefer to use Caswell's because the prep is much easier. But I cannot speak to the quality of POR-15's end result in tanks. If it comes highly recommened, then you should feel find in using it. Just make sure you prep it exactly as the directions tell you to. I believe that one of the preps that POR tells you to use is actually phos acid. You can check that by looking at the MSDS for the preps they sell.
I used POR-15 coating in a unique way this summer. The seat on my lawn tractor cracked and exposed the foam. It's a molded seat and a couple of pieces of the external cover broke away. I sanded the cover around the area of the damage and coated it with POR-15. I put several coats on it. It's an obvious repair, but it has been flexible and durable. It's on a corner of the seat where I get on and off and so far it got thru the summer and still looks like it did when I applied it.

Keep in mind that the combination of the acid and sheetrock screws may reveal bad spots in your tank that show up as pin holes. If that happens, then you know that your tank was worse than you expected. The Honda tank I'm doing looked great inside until I cleaned it. There was severe rush in a welded seam and out of easy view. The screws eventually chipped away the rust and poked tiny holes thru the bottom. I'm glad it did this because I had no intention of sealing this tank. I just need to tape over the holes and the Caswell kit will bridge them and solve the problem.

Good luck with the process. Remember, have patience. Get it cleaned and properly prepped. I'm not sure how you get that POR15 out if you don't do a good job the first time around.
regards,
Rob

t100rc · 12-22-2009, 12:13 PM

Yes ... take the time (and effort) to do it correctly the first time. It's almost not an option to remove the POR-15.

The good news is ... if you do a good job, you'll never need to worry about removing the POR-15 ... it is the best tank lining on the market ...