Triumphrat

Chaosthry · 11-17-2009, 04:42 PM

Bear in mind that I took possession of this bike about a month ago so the history prior to that is sketchy at best. I know it had only been ridden a couple of times since the restoration was finished in October of 2008 (Battery was new then).

This is a 1958 T110 (6V, Positive ground).
As I was going through the bike I noticed that there was some staining on the bottom of the battery box. I pulled it open and there was acid pretty much everywhere, in particular there was corrosion at BOTH terminals of the battery. So much so that I had to cut the wires to get the battery out of it (The screws were pretty much welded on, any tool I used only stripped the bolts). As you might imagine, it's eaten a lot of the paint away inside of the box but that's a different story.

Here's my question: Has anyone experienced anything like this before? If so, what did you do to prevent it from occurring again? To be honest, I've never seen that much corrosion occur that quickly on any vehicle that I've ever worked on, in particular not on both battery terminals. I just want to make sure that it won't happen again when I replace the battery.

On a side note, does anyone know if there's a 6v sealed battery that would fit?

shrugger · 11-17-2009, 04:53 PM

Not sure of manufacterer. Maybe YUASA (sp?) likely have 6v
Gel cells. I know the 12v's are about 3/4 the size of standard
Bike batteries

coloradobob · 11-17-2009, 04:53 PM

Make sure you use the clear plastic overflow tube on the little nipple and route it so the contents drip on the ground. Make sure you are not overcharging. I use podtronics to regulate my battery. I have GREATLY extended life of my battery by having a constant voltage. I used to go thru a battery every year. The bike runs much better also with a consistant voltage.. I always hated the Lucas rectifier etc. Overpriced and underperforming and unreliable on the road. Any hot/warm wires around the battery or is the battery itself hot? I also remove the fuse for storage(more than a month). Bob

pookybear · 11-17-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaosthry

Here's my question: Has anyone experienced anything like this before? If so, what did you do to prevent it from occurring again? To be honest, I've never seen that much corrosion occur that quickly on any vehicle that I've ever worked on, in particular not on both battery terminals. I just want to make sure that it won't happen again when I replace the battery.

Hey Chaosthry,

i am with Coloradobob, it could be an overcharge. This is where
so much voltage is pushed into the battery it boils it. A large
amount of gas is given off, of course this gas has acid in supension.
It is hot when it come out, and hits cool metal and condenses.

I would be sure to check the whole charging system. Pay close
attention to the zener as it is the job of the zener to get rid of
extra voltage.

Pookybear

canuck3134 · 11-18-2009, 12:35 AM

Chaosthry;

I'd agree, could be a voltage regulator problem. I put the original F.A.D.E. regulator in a box and used a Podtronics solid state reg, model 6-PE (for positive earth). No problems. I can always install the original reg someday for posterity but I like the reliability of the pod.

I use a Mangavolt sealed lead acid battery 6 volt 12.5 amphour. Model SLA6-12.5, (not necessarily a motorcycle battery). Worked good all summer. Check a good battery supply house, if they don't have it maybe they can point you in the right direction. The Triumph spec is for 12 amphours.

My 59 has the original set up - separate magneto and dynamo (generator). The ignition and charging system have nothing to do with eachother and the engine will run fine no matter what the generator and battery are doing. No zener diode - those came later.

According to my parts book the 1959 T110 had the same set up as my 120. I think the 1958 T110 was similar.

canuck

Snakeoil · 11-18-2009, 02:37 PM

I'm not a battery expert, but know a little bit about them from working with a battery wizard. People use the term AGM and gel cell in the same context many times. They are not the same. I would say that most of the SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) or VSLA (Valved Sealed Lead Acid) batteries we would use in our bikes are AGM or Absorbed Glass Mat VSLA batteries. The are very similar to a wet cell battery, only the acid is absorbed in a glass mat and hence can operate in more than one position and being sealed (with a relief valve) also allows this.

VSLA meand they are sealed until pressure rises sufficiently to pop a relief valve to prevent the case from exploding. You really do not want a pure SLA in your bike for that very reason. This was the problem DieHard batteries suffered when they first came on the market.

AGM batteries also require a different charging regimen. It is possible that the old charging systems on old iron like an early Triumphs will not be sufficiently controlled to maintain an AGM battery properly. You might very well fry (boil is probably more accurate) the battery.

I'm not familiar with the Podtronics and other modern regulation upgrades, but they may provide sufficient protection to allow an AGM, VSLA battery to be used with a vintage charging system. But I would check first.

By the way, the bubbles that are coming out of the electrolyte when you overcharge it and it boils are pure Hydrogen. It has a 4% LEL (4% in air lower explosion limit). That's why you don't want a pure SLA battery. If you overcharge it, it will explode releasing a cloud of H2 near a sparking battery and hot engine.

Regarding your current dilema, Make sure you neutralize all the rusted area with a baking soda and water mixture. Drench every nook and crannie until it no longer fizzes or foams. Otherwise, every time that area gets wet, the acid will start to work again.
regards,
Rob

Chaosthry · 11-18-2009, 04:34 PM

Thanks for the tips guys. The battery that was in the bike didn't have a vent tube or port (seemed odd to me at the time) so that would definitely explain the acid everywhere. I'll definitely check the charging system to see what it's doing.

I did end up cleaning it (Spent the better part of an hour and a half) with Baking soda and water. My plan this weekend is to hose it off to make sure that all of the residue is gone.

Andrew

Snakeoil · 11-18-2009, 06:48 PM

You might consider coating that area with black POR15 paint. It is self leveling so it should look pretty good even thought applied with a brush. It will encapsulate the rust and also provide a good barrier should you get a leak in the future. It will need to be painted over, but that's just a simple black spray job. The POR 15 supposedly is UV sensitive and will turn gray if in the sun too much. Although not much sun should get under your seat.
regards,
Rob

canuck3134 · 11-29-2009, 11:50 AM

Thanks Rob for the info.

I've done a little checking and from what I've found so far the sealed lead-acid batteries marketed for motorcycle application are in fact valve regulated (VRLA). So if an serious overcharge situation develops I would think they should vent.

The non-valved SLA batteries are mainly used for other applications like emergency lighting, electrical toys, medical and lab equipment etc, presumably where the manufacturer provides the charging equipment and there is more precise regulation of charge rate.

The SLA I have is the only 6 volt we could find in our area that had the right amp-hour rating and would physically fit in the battery box.

So I think I'll look a little deeper into this and try to source a valved unit or maybe even just a regular wet cell with a properly routed and secured vent pipe. It's just that I've had mufflers ruined before by battery acid so I'm trying to reduce the odds of a discharge..

I guess all lead-acid batteries are potential hydrogen bombs, its mainly a question of how loud they are ticking and if we're listening!

Chaosthry: if I find a better VRLA alternative that will actually fit, I'll let you know, (and likewise please).

Any battery suggestions from other T Rat members who have stayed with 6 volt?

Cheers, Canuck