Triumphrat

Carbonbased · 08-06-2009, 02:49 PM

Howdy Blokes,

Unlike the other noobish chap looking for info, I already have a Hinckley Bonnie and am now looking to adopt a vintage bike like the late 60s ones I rode back in the early 70s.

Problem is, I don't know what I'm doing and would like to be better prepared before I jump in and buy a bike.

Are there any really good books or online sources that anyone can recommend that someone like me should check out to learn technical issues with specific models, what to look for generally with vintage bikes, etc.?

Here's a specific question about a (dare I say it) '68 BSA Lightening that's caught my eye. (It's on ebay and I hope to see and ride the bike this weekend.)
Seller says "bike numbers do not match." So that would mean the serial numbers on the frame and the engine are not the same, meaning that one or both is not original, right?
And how much, on a rough percentage basis, should that decrease the value of a classic bike if it's otherwise in sound shape and running order?

I'd very much appreciate any help you guys can give me to help me get started toward a bike that makes my heart pitter patter, but doesn't raise my blood pressure too much or give my banker a coronary!

Flatrabbit · 08-06-2009, 03:47 PM

Hey Carbon Based!

If the Number do not match it decreases the overall value of the bike, But what does it really matter when your riding down the road, I have a 1971 T100C and the number match and the joy of the numbers matching lasted about as long as it took me to say "oh cool the number match." Im not sure about BSA Lighting parts, but depending on were you live will depend on the price. Im not sure but Triumphs are alot more numerous in the United states therefore the prices are a bit lower. When you say you dont want a bike that rasies your blood pressure I think they all do! I find working on my bike is just as rewarding and therapeutic as riding it. unless Im trying to true a wheel or clean a sludge trap.

epynt1050 · 08-06-2009, 07:09 PM

Try "Triumph Twin Restoration" and "BSA Twin Restoration " both by Roy Bacon. Also model specific books such as "Bonnie-The development history" and "Triumph Trophy Bible".
Several UK magazine such as "The Classic MotorCycle" have a US readership and worldwide availability by subscription.
In UK, values reduced by around 20% for bike without matching nos. Think it might be less in US.

Carbonbased · 08-06-2009, 08:35 PM

Thanks to you both for the encouragement and information.

Epynt1050,
Thanks especially for your estimate of what the price differential might be for bikes with non-matching numbers. From what I can tell, good running condition late 60s BSA A65s are going for around $4500-5000 in the U.S. I'm hoping the one I'm looking at will go for less than 4000, largely owing to its non-original aspects, especially the serial number issue.

pookybear · 08-06-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonbased

Thanks to you both for the encouragement and information.

Epynt1050,
Thanks especially for your estimate of what the price differential might be for bikes with non-matching numbers. From what I can tell, good running condition late 60s BSA A65s are going for around $4500-5000 in the U.S. I'm hoping the one I'm looking at will go for less than 4000, largely owing to its non-original aspects, especially the serial number issue.

Carbon based,

Humm, another BSA post, I am still wondering if the BSA guy are
just that hard on new people that they feel they must post here.

Anyway, Here is a small quote from Classic Bike October 2002.
"Unfortunately, A65's were plagued by unreliability, most of which could be traced to Lucas Ignition faults. While the standard 38/97
mph A65 Star eventually coped, the 46bhp twin carb Lightining
managed less well, although Mike Hailwood rode a works-prepared
model to victory in the 1965 Hutchinson 100 race at Brands Hatch."

Read as You will have to do some upgrades on the ignition system.
And that Mike the Bike was the Man!

Other than that little bit of information, The engine is just a short
stroke A10 with valve and rocker changes, to improve the
combustion and breathing. Also pulled from the same article.

Other than that I do not know much about them, but they do
seems to fit the general form of the time. If you can properly
sort the machine out, you will not get the smile off of your face.
Getting there might be a learning experience.

I would not worry to much about non matching numbers. If you plan
to ride the wheels off the bike, matching numbers might make
you feel bad as the odometer spins.

Like most Brit rides of the time, it shall have it short commings, but
in the end there is nothing else like one. I hope you get your
dream ride, and get it sorted out for riding fun.

Pookybear

I think we may need a BSA section soon.

Carbonbased · 08-06-2009, 09:15 PM

Thanks to you, too, PB.

I'm usually over in the Hinckley Bonnie section, so that's how I decided to ask here about the Beezer since I figured the matching number issue would be the same for classic Triumphs.

I am looking for a rider rather than a show bike (although I would settle for both

), but didn't want to way over pay for a bike with the numbers issue in case I need to resell for some reason.

Good info about the ignition and so forth. Have already learned that A65s tend to have some lubrication and bearing issues, too!

BTW, I did get one very gracious and thorough response in a BSA forum!

pookybear · 08-06-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonbased

BTW, I did get one very gracious and thorough response in a BSA forum!

Good to hear the BSA guys support BSA, and lubercation problems.
Yah my Triumph has that too. If I can only find a way to keep
the lubercation on the inside I have it made!!

Pookybear

GrandPaulZ · 08-06-2009, 10:44 PM

There are no wrong answers, and there is no right answer, either!

It depend on many things:

purchase budget ("down payment")
overall & specific expectations
mechanical abilities
desire to show the bike
"investment" value
desire to "hand the bike down" in the future
desire to use the bike on extended highway tours
proximity to an "expert" in the make/model you expect to acquire
willingness to spend time and money on a continuing basis
at least a dozen other aspects of old bike onership...

Speaking from signficant experience, even the most trustworthy seller could be selling an old bike that runs well, but happens to have a specific critical part that is 40+ years old and about to fail; the fact that you happen to be the new owner when that part does fail, is just a coincidence and part of the "joys" of ownership.

I built a "mostly" '69 Triumph Bonneville from scratch, TO ORIGINAL SPECIFICATIONS, using some '65, '66, '67 & '68 parts on it, as well as a few new parts such as electronic ignition, pistons & rings, bearings, fork bushings, clutch plates and so forth. I also installed brand new tires, chain, cables and oil & fuel lines.

I did a track school day and got my license, then raced the following week at Sandia (Albuquerque, NM), and eventually did most of a full season in '08, finishing 5th in the points (20 riders).

I'm not all that good of a rider (ask anybody). The reason I finished so high up, was that the bike never missed a beat. It WAS NOT, AND IS NOT, RACE-TUNED; it is bone stock except .020 over pistons. The fact of the matter is that a properly built old Britbike CAN BE STONE RELIABLE, just pay attention to detail.

I also set a class speed record at the Bonneville salt flats with the Bonnie... (it ain't braggin', if ya done it)

So, maybe I'm not the person to ask because I'm just flat-out partial to the old bikes. Or, maybe I AM the person to ask!

epynt1050 · 08-07-2009, 05:21 AM

I agree totally with GPZ.
The problem starts when the bike has not been properly maintained. An all too likely occurrence after 40 yrs. However if you go into it knowing what to expect and being prepared to lavish some TLC on the bike before riding it too much, then you will be well rewarded.
For info on lubrication problems visit http://www.srm-engineering.com/engin...eed-conversion
One further point on non matching nos - it does mean that either the bike has been built from two (or more) bike or something terminal has happened to the original engine. Maybe who ever has built the bike is an expert and done a super job, alternatively someone who does not know what they are doing (or does not care) has just thrown a bike together to make some quick money. Hence the suspicion relating to "matching nos". I would be careful buying any classic if I did not know its history and even more careful if nos not matched.
On the issue of ignition, I have never had any problems with Lucas ignition provided that is carefully set up. The supposed ,.problem was due to the points gap changing due to crankshaft flex. Both BSA and Triumph used exactly the same system and parts. Just set the points carefully with clean contacts, new condenser and make sure oil pad is lightly oiled. Also all electrical connections are secure.

Carbonbased · 08-07-2009, 09:16 AM

Thanks again, gentlemen - great information and much appreciated.

GPZ,
What kind of track was it at Sandia?
I haven't been in Albuquerque in many years, but I went to high school there and went to quite a few flat track races there back in the early 70s. The last time I rode a Beezer was also in Albuquerque, as it happens.