http://www.triumphrat.net/blogsmembers/1-1/ en 60 /images/triumphrat/misc/rss.jpg http://www.triumphrat.net/blogsmembers/1-1/ http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/triumph-technical-data-2/5-speed-gearing-calculator-33/ http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/triumph-technical-data-2/5-speed-gearing-calculator-33/
I'll transfer to it's original owner.]]> Sat, 27 Oct 2007 03:19:09 Triumph Technical Data Triumph Technical Data Shawn en http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/ratnet-member-bios-4/shawns-bio-22/ http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/ratnet-member-bios-4/shawns-bio-22/
My name is Shawn L Reed, I'm the owner of TriumphRat.Net. One could say I was it's creator, but after a few months several others got involved and helped make this site what it is today.

As an Arkansas resident for the majority of my life, things like humidity and allergy problems represent the downsides of living close to great motorcycling roads. I'm a bit sensitive to extreme weather, and tend to get wrapped up in work and responsibilities; but still ride as much as I can.

My hobbies include web development (Duh), Linux, Music (old Rocker), Coffee (I suffer an occasional Caffeine Overdose), and working on a couple personal projects.

My family isn't large, but we are a bit "extended" since our involvement with helping abused children. We have scaled back our efforts in the last few months in order to concentrate our time on one particular situation, which I hope to publicly share.]]> Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:40:34 Rat.Net Member Bios Rat.Net Member Bios Shawn en http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/triumph-technical-data-2/triumph-maintenance-schedules-15/ http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/triumph-technical-data-2/triumph-maintenance-schedules-15/ Always refer to your owners manual.
When in doubt - Ask Your Dealer!

955i & 885i Maintenance Chart (up to 2001 model year)
Maintenance requirements for:

T595 Daytona
Daytona 955i
885cc Speed Triple
955cc Speed Triple models
All up to and including 2001 model year.
955i_to_2001.pdf
-----
955i Maintenance Chart (2002 model year on)
Maintenance requirements for:

Daytona 955i (from 2002 model year)
Speed Triple 955i (from 2002 model year)
955i_from_2002.pdf
-----
Bonneville Maintenance Chart
Maintenance requirements for:

Bonneville
Bonneville T100
Speedmaster
Bonneville America
bonneville.pdf
-----
Daytona 600 Maintenance Chart
Maintenance requirements for:

Daytona 600
Daytona600.pdf
-----
Rocket III Maintenance Chart
Maintenance schedule for: Rocket III Rocket III Classic
RocketIII.pdf
-----
Service Checklist - All models
Single page from Triumph Service Checklist Pad (Part number T3850550). NB: This sheet shows a 3000 mile service which is no longer deemed necessary on most models. Please check the service schedule for your particular model.
servicesheet2.gif
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Sprint RS and ST Maintenance Chart (2002 model year onwards)
Maintenance requirements for:

Sprint ST (from 2002 model year)
Sprint RS models (from 2002 model year)
Sprint_RS_ST_from_2002.pdf
-----
Sprint RS and ST Maintenance Chart (up to 2001 model year)
Maintenance requirements for:

Sprint ST (up to and including 2001 model year)
Sprint RS (up to and including 2001 model year)
Sprint_RS_ST_to_2001.pdf
-----
T3 Maintenance Chart
Maintenance schedule for:

Daytona
Daytona Super 3
Trident
Sprint /Sport /Executive
Tiger (carburrattors)
Speed Triple (carburettors)
Trophy 900 and 1200
Thunderbird
Thunderbird Sport
Legend TT
Adventurer
T3.pdf
-----
Tiger FI Maintenance Chart
Maintenance requirements for:

885 fuel injected Tiger
955cc fuel injected Tiger
Tiger_955i_885i.pdf
-----
TT600 & Speed4 Maintenance Chart
Maintenance schedule for:

TT600
Speed Four
TT600.pdf]]> Sat, 18 Aug 2007 19:49:05 Triumph Technical Data Triumph Technical Data Shawn en http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/triumph-technical-data-2/technical-aids-14/ http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/triumph-technical-data-2/technical-aids-14/ Always refer to your owners manual.

Purchasing additional shop manuals or reference guides is encouraged.
When in doubt - Ask Your Dealer!

1996 Sprint Ignitor Wiring Codes
Description: Wiring color codes and descriptions at the ignitor box connection on a 1996 Sprint. Many thanks to TriumphRat.Net member lcjohnny for documenting this.
900ignitorwiring.pdf
-----
Classics centerstand fitting instructions
Description: Fitting instructions for the centerstand on Thunderbird, TBS, Legend TT & Adventurer. In Adobe Acrobat (pdf) format.
tbirdstand.pdf
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Demystifying Electrics on Meriden Triumphs
Description: A 20-page guide to the basic electrical systems on Meriden Triumphs, including descriptions of how components work, and fault-finding procedures.
electrical_meriden_v1_2.doc
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Design for a valve adjustment tool
Description: Instead of buying the officail Triumph tool, you can save yourself some "readies" by following these plans and making your own.
valve_tool.htm
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Removing the Evaporative Loss System
Description: How to remove the Evaporative Loss System from the Hinckley Bonnevilles.
EVLS.pdf
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TBird Gearing Calculator Spreadsheet
Description: Thunderbird Gearing Calculator
gearing.xls
-----
Temperature light service bulletin
Description: Triumph service bulletin detailing the recommended procedure for curing flickering temp light problems on the Trophy. This fix is very similar to that which is also recommended for the "classic" models (Thunderbird, Legend et al).
trophytempwarninglamp.pdf
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The Hinckley FAQ
Description: An historic HTML document well known by those in the know; it is packed with a wealth of information applicable to the older T3 Hinckley bikes.
The_Hinckley_FAQ.html
-----
Thunderbird Sport Gearing Calculator
Description: Now for 6 speed models! Updated by Wombat
tbsgearing.xls
-----
Torque Spec conversion Chart
Description: For those that do not have a torque wrench calibrated in Newton Meters. The chart takes a Newton Meter (nm) value and gives you the equivilant in Pound Inches (lb in) and Pound Feet (lb ft).
torque_conversion.xls
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Triumph Camshaft Data
Description: Triumph Camshaft Data Data sent by jimmyj900.
Triumph_Camshaft_Data.html
-----
Triumph summer Screen Mounting Instructions
Description: Triumph instruction book for mounting of the the accessory "summer screen" to the Thunderbird
summerscreen.pdf
-----
Valve Adjustment Worksheet
Description: A handy worksheet when checking and adjusting valve shims on Hinckly Triples and Fours.
ValveWorksheet.doc]]> Sat, 18 Aug 2007 19:45:45 Triumph Technical Data Triumph Technical Data Shawn en http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/legacy-triumphratnet-info-3/cartridge-emulators-7/ http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/legacy-triumphratnet-info-3/cartridge-emulators-7/ Emulators

by Dickbender (Darcy)

Firstly, I am in no way associated with Race Tech.
Secondly, this task is reasonably difficult if you are not an experienced DIY mechanic then get a professional to do the job.
Now a little bit of theory. What is a Gold Valve Emulator and how does it work? The best answer for this question is from Race Tech FAQs

Q: I have a bike with damping rod type forks. I have heard that Gold Valve® Cartridge Emulators® are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Why?
A: Old fashioned damping rods while inexpensive to manufacture have major limitations. To create compression damping, oil is shoved through a hole or holes. Shoving oil through holes creates very little resistance to flow at low vertical wheel velocities as when hitting a dip or gully or applying the front brakes. This allows the forks to shoot through the travel fairly easily, diving or bottoming in these situations. On the other hand when the wheel hits something square edge, especially at speed, it needs a lot of oil to pass through the damping holes very quickly. Unfortunately the nature of shoving oil through holes is that as the wheel velocity increases the damping force increases with the square of the velocity. In other words if you double the velocity you get four times the force. This means the hole basically "hydraulic locks" resulting in a harsh spike. Damping rods give the worst of both worlds, they are both too mushy and too harsh at the same time.
An Emulator® is a valve that sits on top of the damping rod and is held in place with the main spring. To install them we simply remove the damping rods and drill out the existing compression damping holes so they are so large they do not create any appreciable damping. Then during reassembly we simply drop the Emulator® on top of the damping rod. The Emulator® creates the compression damping of a state-of-the-art cartridge fork. The ride is both firmer and plusher than the damping rod and is completely tuneable. Sliced bread is good, Emulators® are better.

If you got through that then your ready to move on.

Tools and Equipment

1. Bike lifter I have is the ATV lifter. Maybe a centrestand would work I don’t know for sure.
2. Racetech cartridge emulators p/n FEGV S4101
3. You also need some spacers made to adapt the emulators to the damping tube I used aluminium 33 mm OD x 27 mm ID 6 mm long. (I also had a pair 12mm long made)


Spacers

4. 5/16” drill and a bench press (a power drill would do in a pinch).
5. Hand tools including torque wrench, Allen wrenches and a good set of sockets.
6. Fork oil. I used 10W Shell. After fitting emulators the viscosity of the fork oil controls rebound damping.
7. Kerosene.
8. Rags.
9. Springs (talk to Race Tech) or at the very least, some longer preload spacers, if you don’t buy new springs.
10. New washers for bottom bolt.

Procedure

1. After you have all your tools and equipment set up, get the bike up on the lifter and secure it with a tie down.
2. Remove front brake calliper (secure with a bungy or rope so it doesn’t hang on the hose) then remove the front wheel, mudguard (fender) and speedo cable from the drive
3. Loosen the top bolts that clamp the forks into the top yoke.
4. Loosen the fork caps.
5. Remove the fork assemblies.
6. Loosen the bottom bolt from the fork assembly with either a rattle gun or clamping the bottom fork leg into a vice with towel around it.
7. Remove the fork caps and springs/washers/spacer tubes and tip the old oil out into a container.
8. Remove the bottom bolt the damper tube and top out spring will come out now. There is no need to separate the inner and outer legs unless you need to replace the seals.
9. Wash it all with kerosene and let it dry.
10. Mark and drill 6 x 5/16” holes in the damper tubes as per enclosed instructions


Stock Damper Tubes


Drilled Damper Tubes

11. Install damper tube into bottom leg, don’t forget top out spring and new washer.


Assembly

12. Fit the forks onto the bike (you might need some WD40 on the headlamp bracket rubbers) and remove handle bars cover tank or remove as well. This makes it easier to fit the caps.
13. Pour a little oil in the forks about 50-100 ml (so things are not dry).
14. Install spacer, emulator and spring then the caps.
15. Check/adjust sag as per instructions.
16. Remove springs
17. Fill with oil to recommended level 120 mm from top with fork compressed and spacer and emulator installed but no spring. Pumping slowly up and down until all air is out you will hear it.
18. Refit spring and fork cap.
19. Bolt all the other bits on mudguard/wheel then brake.
20. Check all bolts for correct tension including the damper tube bolts
21. Check the brakes by pumping a few times.
22. Go for a ride look for bumps to run over not go around.
23. Come home and drink some beer.


Top: Stock Spring
Bottom: Ikon Spring]]> Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:47:33 Legacy TriumphRat.Net Info Legacy TriumphRat.Net Info Shawn en http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/twins-documentation-library-7/removing-baffles---triumph-bonneville-6/ http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/twins-documentation-library-7/removing-baffles---triumph-bonneville-6/
Tools needed:

1 ¼ “ metal hole saw (choose a good one)
Minimum 8” long ¼” metal drill bit
Preferred: ½ in drive drill

The rear baffle is held in place by a rear flange and an inner flange. The baffle is tack welded in two places to each of these flanges. Use the hole saw to cut through the rear flange of the rear baffle. This gives you a nice smooth cut.

Use a drift or hold an appropriate sized socket against the rear baffle tube with channel locks or vice grips and tap it sharply to break the spot welds on the front flange. Next remove the fiberglass that is around the tube/baffle with a needle nose pliers or hemostats. The fiberglass is wrapped with thin wire to hold it in place. If you can grasp the wire with needle nose pliers and break it, the fiberglass packing will come out easier in larger chunks. Removing the packing is the hardest part of the job.

When you have removed the fiberglass packing, you can see the inner flange. It is perforated with 1/8” holes. Use the long ¼” drill bit to drill five or six holes in the flange close to the baffle tube. I drilled six in the pattern of the chambers in a revolver cylinder. You are drilling it out all around to create a larger opening and allow for the baffle tube to come out. Grasp the baffle tube with pliers and pull it out. You may have to twist and turn it some to get it out. If it won’t come out, simply drill a couple of more holes. One of mine came out with six holes; the other took seven holes.

You probably don't have to rejet, but if you went up to 112 or 115 main jets the throttle response should improve. The holes in all the internal baffles are 3/4" so you are not dramatically improving the flow through the mufflers. The sound is a little deeper and about 15% louder than stock and doesn't sound like a sewing machine anymore. This is definitely worth doing if you don't want loud mufflers but can't stand the sound of the stock mufflers. You should turn your mixture screws 3 – 3 ½ turns. I turned mine out 3 ¼ turns.

In addition you can drill through the remaining baffles. I did this and it improved the sound as well as improving the flow.

To drill through the remaining baffles you will need a flashlight and a ½ or ¾ inch metal drill bit welded to a 1/2” steel rod approximately 38” long. I measured from the beginning of the front taper of the silencer to the rear of the silencer. I then applied this measurement to the 38” steel rod measuring from the tip of the bit back and marked it with fingernail polish. I did this so I would not push the bit too far and hit the taper of the silencer. I used a ½“ bit simply because I did not have an extra ¾” bit. It really doesn’t matter. It’s definitely not rocket science. If I remember correctly, there are four more baffles to drill through.

The end result is not quite as loud as TORs; but definitely cheaper and it sounds pretty good.

Jetting: For just the rear baffles removed, try 112 to 115 main jets. If all the internal baffles are drilled out with a 1/2" drill bit, use 115 to 118 main jets. For 3/4 " drilled internal baffles, try 120 main jets. Jetting recommendations are for sea level and the snorkel in place.

Submitted by CarlS]]> Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:45:37 Twins Documentation Library Twins Documentation Library Shawn en http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/legacy-triumphratnet-info-3/uk-triumph-dealers-4/ http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/legacy-triumphratnet-info-3/uk-triumph-dealers-4/
Uk Triumph Dealer List

Updated 27/06/06
If you EDIT this page, please change the Updated Date above, Thank you.

Avon
Fowlers

Bedfordshire
Flitwick Motorcycles

Buckinghamshire
Onyer Triumph

Cambridgeshire
Webbs

Channel Islands

Bob's Motorcycle Centre Limited
21 Gloucester Street St Helier Jersey JE2 3QR
Tel : 01534 758255

Duques Garage
Les Landes, Forest Guernsey
Tel : 01481 267304

Cheshire
Bill Smith’s

Cornwall
GT Motorcycles

County Durham
Mands Motorcycles

Cumbria
KC Superbikes

Derbyshire
Triumph World

Devon
Bridge Motorcycles

Dorset
3X Triumph

Essex
Ongar Motorcycles

Gloucestershire
Performance Triumph

Greater Manchester
Robinsons
Motorcycle Centre Orrell
Motorcycle Centre Stockport

Hampshire
Rafferty Newman

Isle of Man
S & S Motors

Isle of White
Dave Death Motorcycles
Priory Road Carisbrooke
Tel : 01983 522160

Kent
Laguna Motorcycles
Robinsons

Lancashire
philip Youles

Leicestershire
Windy Corner

Lincolnshire
Webbs

London
Carl Rosner Croydon
Jack Lilly Ashford
Metropolis Motorcycles
North city Triumph Chigwell
Boyer Racing
151-152 Plumstead Road London SE18 7DY
Tel : 0208 854 8133

Norfolk
norfolk Triumph

Northamptonshire
Pure Triumph

Northern Island
Philip McCallen Motorcycles

Nottinghamshire
Pidcocks

Oxfordshire
Hughenden M40

Scotland
Shirlaw’s Aberdeen
Triumph Glasgow
Two Wheels Edinburgh

Shropshire
Wylie & Holland Telford

Somerset
Total Triumph

Staffordshire
BS Bikes Stoke on Trent

Suffolk
Lings Ipswich

Surrey
Haslemere Motorcycles

Sussex
JS Gedge St Leonards on Sea
Alf´s Motorcycles
100 Dominion Road Worthing Sussex BN14 8JP
Tel : 01903 200948

Tyne & Wear

Wales
Garland & Griffiths, Haverfordwest
Woods, Abergele Clwyd
Robert Bevan & Son
Hadfield Road Cardiff
Tel : 02920 227477

Warwickshire
Knotts of Stratford
14 Western Road, Stratford-upon-Avon
Tel : 01789 205149

West Midlands
Black Country Motorcycles, Tipton

Wiltshire
Taylor Racing, Swindon

Worcestershire
Action Motorcyles, Redditch

Yourkshire
A1 Moto, York
Eddy Wright, Leeds
Team Roberts, Doncaster]]> Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:26:04 Legacy TriumphRat.Net Info Legacy TriumphRat.Net Info Shawn en http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/triumph-technical-data-2/dealer-negotiation-tips-2/ http://www.triumphrat.net/blogs/triumph-technical-data-2/dealer-negotiation-tips-2/
This document is to help overcome some mis-perceptions and provide sound advice from those who have purchased many motorcycles in their lifetime. Some of the authors of this document may be professional negotiators in their normal lives, but the intent is to help build the personal leadership within yourself to lead a transaction and ensure that it is perceived as beneficial for both parties.

That being said, it is also important to note that transactions that both sides agree upon may not always be perceived as beneficial, such as a motorcycle that is being sold below cost because it wasn't popular in the market during it's model year. Some examples like this can't be overcome by the consumer, but it doesn't hurt to understand them.

At this point, some people would be ready to add in a significant editorial on the dishonesty of some (or the majority) motorcycle dealers. This is understandable, but we'll get to that later on.

Know Your Limits

• Finances - do you homework on what you can spend and work out budgeting scenarios if you came home with something that cost more than you planned to spend. This reality goes a long way toward focusing your shopping efforts. The same is true if you plan to buy a motorcycle with cash, write down what it would be like if you had to draw out more cash than planned or sign an unexpected finance agreement.
• Potential Repairs & Maintenance - know what your personal threshold is for repairs and maintenance. No one likes buying motorcycles with mechanical faults, but issues affect motorcycle owners differently. For some, a major mechanical failure is just an excuse to find some trick aftermarket stuff. For others, an occasional breakdown may trigger highly emotional responses. The bottom line here is that if you can't handle mechanical issues, limit your possibilities to the higher-quality alternatives and stay away from recently introduced models.
• Financing - Unless you are paying only in cash, or have a average/below-average personal credit score, it would be worth your time to investigate competitive financing alternatives before shopping. For financing companies, motorcycle financing is quite profitable, because the average motorcycle consumer credit score is lower, especially in the United States. A solid financing alternative will empower you when it comes time to negotiate. Sometimes a dealer can do better, sometimes they can't.
• Dealer Accessibility - Some riders are most comfortable with a dealer that is very close, while others have no problem with putting a bike on a trailer and towing it to their favorite shop that is hours away. While the allure of some of the less popular, or more exotic models, may tempt you to travel a distance to buy; take a moment to consider what it would be like to take it in for something as basic as an oil change or scheduled maintenance.
• Insurance - Always know what your insurances rates will be before you buy, especially with Sport or Sport-Touring models. Cruisers tend to be priced rather low, but Sportbike insurance can be equivalent to your mortgage.
• Riding Ability - If there is one reason why insurance for sportbikes is so high, it's because too many inexperienced riders have bought and wrecked them. The same is true for exotics that may have peculiar riding traits, such as heavy cruisers or choppers. If you're a first-time rider, there is no shame in buying something less than the latest race-ready sportbike or mega-cruiser. Take a beginner safety course beforehand if possible, and always ride a new bike with some degree of patience. Keeping your efforts focused on what you can realistically ride makes you a better negotiator, again because you'll be more focused.

Accept the Environment

• They are in it to make money - Don't get wrapped up in the mindset that dealers who make a lot of money are mistreating their customers. Or that customers who pay MSRP are stupid. In general, separate yourself from this type of thought, it doesn't help in the negotiation.
• Motorcycles are a recreational product - The successful dealers tend to be a bit more relaxed on the hard sell, or don't always follow up with potential customers who didn't buy on their first visit. If they don't see the buying signals coming from you, most salespeople won't waste their time. So if a particular dealer / salesperson isn't running to you and giving you their undivided attention, it either means that they don't care or they don't think you're ready to buy. In some cases, this is a good thing.
• Don't hesitate to use the word LOVE - Some people think that coming in a dealer's shop with an attitude that doesn't represent your enthusiasm for the motorcycle is the first thing to showing some sort of power over others. Truth is that in some cases this actually works; but it won't around experienced dealers or salespeople.

Offers to be cautious of
These are in no particular order, and none of them can be labelled as bad, but they tend to bring out the worst in a transaction:

• Money Down - should only be done on motorcycles that you can visually see on the floor and at least sit on. Do not put money down on a new model unless you have the means to and flexibility to part with it quickly if it doesn't meet expectations.
• Brand-Name Credit Cards - are the basis for financing on some models, which means putting both the bike and any accessories or apparel you buy on the same revolving-credit account. If you plan on paying something like ten times the minimum monthly payment, then this is Ok. If not, calculate a few scenarios out before walking into the shop. It's all too easy to spend a thousands on bolt-ons and cool apparel.
• High Interest - Financing anything at 15% or higher isn't necessary unless you are seriously trying to re-build your credit score or you plan on paying off the balance soon.
• Financing all of the purchase - can lead to future problems if you don't have a plan to pay-down the balance. It's usually best to put down money with the finance. This also makes for a more satisfying ownership, because you'll be less sensitive about normal things like cost of ownership.
• Customization Traps - While this is the intent of most motorcycles purchased today, the reality is that not everyone can afford to buy a motorcycle and then sink thousands into it. Like other financial matters, write it down and see how it works out before doing it. There's no shame in riding a motorcycle with a few mods. The only thing that matters is that you are riding!
• No demo rides - This is understandably difficult for some dealers, but you should be able to at least test ride a comparable model before buying. There are exceptions (like superbikes or big-ticket cruisers), but you need to be aware that what looks thrilling in pictures may not match with your riding preferences on the road.

Negotiation Tips
The key things to remember:

• Don't get mad or frustrated
• Be respectful
• Keep the conversation two-way
• Ask questions
• Discuss your riding preferences
• Remember that they aren't going to agree unless they are making money
• Don't stray from your limits
• Ensure that the dealer is finding the deal acceptable
• Be specific with your requirements
• Avoid extensive delay-tactics
• Be Honest - even if the dealer isn't

When to Buy

• All of your requirements have been met
• You feel comfortable with the dealer for ongoing service
• The dealer has communicated a willingness to support your needs
• There has been at least five service scenarios successfully addressed
• You haven't gone more than 10% over your pre-determined budget
• The Love for the motorcycle is so great that you couldn't see owning anything else

What do to in difficult situations

• Deposits - only on vehicles that are in-stock and can be seen and touched. It's not only a matter of contention if you don't like the bike when it comes. Holding your money also ensures that you can realistically purchase the machine. If your available cash/credit is limited, ask yourself how much conflict can you handle if it represents something you don't like. If you can handle the potential pitfalls of buying the latest unseen model, then go for it.
• Generic Responses - are usually a result of someone who isn't sure you're sending any buying signals. Many seasoned salespeople don't get into specifics unless you are in-person and appear to be ready to buy. Some people take this behaviour as a sign of unprofessional conduct. In some cases that may be true, but don't assume too early. In cases like this, try rolling back the discussion to something that is simpler and less-committing to the salesperson to put them back to making positive and specific responses; then go back into the details.
• Hand-offs to a closer/manager - are either an established business practice so that a responsible person is controlling the profit margin, or representative of an inexperienced salesperson. If the discussion becomes too complex, with a salesperson going back and forth, ask for the manager to join in the discussion and keep them both in the room with you.
• Pricing Issues - If the person you are working with is a bottom-line type of person, a shorter negotiation is best. If they don't discuss details and encourage last-minute quotes, that's Ok as well but you might as well negotiate a lot. Personally, I prefer to deal with bottom-line people, but go at it for hours with a salesperson who thinks that holding issues until the last minute is the better way to approach me. In some cases, it may be the only option the salesperson is given. It is important to remember that the end-goal is a motorcycle you'll enjoy riding; but if you feel the ownership experience is going to be spoiled by a bad dealer negotiation then thank them for their time and step away for a few days. Clearing your head does help, which leads to ...
• Buyer Confusion - If you are feeling overwelmed during a negotiation, there's no need to feel like a victim. It's ok to step away for a few hours or days. If they want to sell you the motorcycle, it will be in their interests to understand your personality and buying habits.
• You've Gotta Have It! - Many bikers purchase motorcycles at MSRP and have thrilling ownership experiences. So there's nothing wrong with saying that Life is Short and just going with it. If you feel that the dealer relationship is strong and supportive, that could be of great value to you. However, it is a questionable practice if the dealer doesn't meet your expectations. Let's face it, unless you either work on or build custom bikes for a living, you'll need some degree of dealer support.

What to Pay
There is a reason that this part is last, although it is very important, it shouldn't be the sole indicator of a negotiation.

There's nothing wrong with working to get the best price possible. There is a common phrase used among salespeople:

The sale begins when the customer says No.

If all customers bought on the spot at whatever was printed on the price tag, salespeople wouldn't be needed. All companies hire and train qualified salespeople to ensure that customers are happy, and that the transaction is profitable. What amount is considered profitable is going to be different among all dealers, and represents a common misperception of buyers that the differences are personal.

• Do not start pushing for a lower price right away - Most salespeople aren't experienced enough to handle this tactic, and it is way too early. The dealer needs to see that you're interested in the bike.
• Bring documented MSRP - Only if you are interested in a purely financial transaction with no trade-in, or at least a simple trade-in. Don't do it if you're wanting other things like extra accessories.
• Some shops employ trained negotiators - If they budge very little at first, and it bothers you, step away and think about it before going back in.
• If the salesperson is going back & forth often - this can mean either that you can keep wheelin-n-dealin until everyone gets frustrated, or that you're working with a salesperson who isn't given much pricing authority. Generally, I like to work with the manager and salesperson together at the same time.
• If they aren't giving you the price you want - don't respond negatively or become emotional. Also, do not state that you'll to another dealer. Just state, in your own words, that this discussion isn't meeting your expectations. Let them know that you may have to consider other options. This doesn't always result in a positive outcome, sometimes results in another dealer visit.
• Avoid complex math - by writing down your understanding of the summary (or bottom line) on a piece of paper, in front of the dealer/salesperson. Include the terms alongside the numbers.
• Writing the deal down on paper - in front of some dealers can make them defensive, but generally is a productive practice and highly recommended. There are times when a discussion isn't representing what both sides actually think. Writing down the deal also helps both sides think about what can be done to help close the transaction.
• Pushing for low rate financing - unless are looking to rebuild your credit rating. Financing is a reality in today's world, but don't buy a bike on a high interest rate unless you plan on paying it off quickly. If the dealer can't give you a good rate, secure your own financing or buy from a brand/dealer who will.
• Be wary of excessive maintenance or warranty agreements - To some degree, the costs of these plans are negotiable as well, but sometimes can make the cost of your bike unecessarily high. If you feel that you need them, then stress them as a priority to the fiancing/closing manager and let them know that you'll walk away from the deal if you don't get favorable terms.

When the deal is closed
Enjoy your new bike, and don't look back. If you feel that something wasn't negotiated as you would have liked, don't hold it against the dealer or yourself; just embrace the experience and learn from it.]]> Sat, 18 Aug 2007 15:28:21 Triumph Technical Data Triumph Technical Data Shawn en