This has been coming for a long time now. It's going to push the bike manufacturers out of the after market mod/parts business. They went after Harley b/c of the big footprint and media attention it would get, it will take a long time before they go after the small niche performance and after market parts folks.....but my guess is it is going to happen eventually.
Probably one of the workarounds will be things like selling tuners that aren't programmed yet but with easy to download custom fuel maps so that the customer is making the changes and not the maker of the tuner. Kinda like CNC machines and guns...you can buy the machine but have to go somewhere else to get the design.
This is new that a prominent bike manufacturer is being taken to task, since it's old news in CA with Dynojet's Power Commander EPA violations. That suit resulted in Dynojet repackaging units for street vs race only and changing how the unit alters fueling at low rpm. Jesse James was fined for basically the same thing as well in CA. Most of these products are sold for off road use only keeping the tuning company within gov't compliance. Same goes for aftermarket exhausts that are being sold as accessories from the bike manufacturers such as Akro, Arrow and V&H.
I wonder if the spells trouble for products like TunECU which do allow you to alter the fueling of the engine which obviously has some influence on emissions. As a generalization I think you could say that if the engine runs better and feels stronger, there's probably a negative mark for emissions. Used to be that you could modify your own vehicle as you wished except that you could get caught in those states with annual emissions checks--mostly on cars and not bikes. However it appears that EPA has the back yard modifier in its sights and right now the guy who supplies the tools to modify the fueling is the likely target but individuals will be next on the menu. "It is not allowed that your hobby should be fun."
Like felony said, the manufactures will play the games they have to to stay in business. "Off-road use only" is the first and easiest step, until that gets cracked down on too.
Taking the fun out of motorsports. I'm aging at about the right rate. By the time it gets too hard to locate an older bike without all the new emissions and other safety crap, I will be about done riding anyways.
The article I read on this yesterday quoted HD as saying they only supplied these mods for race use....which begs the question: Does anyone actually race HD's???
The 1200XR was raced in its own series. Don't think UltraGlides were. Of course, antique HD and Indians with hand shifters are raced at Daytona. They probably weren't on HD's mind when they made that statement.
As a motorcycle manufacturer, they are required to manufacture and sell bikes that comply with EPA regulations. When they install a Harley branded tuner to a customer's bike prior to, or even after, sale, it's a different magilla (sorry for the legalese) than unrelated aftermarket manufacturers supplying customers with "off road use" or "race only" accessories.
Of course, we all know that the EPA is trying to get their clean, green little fingers into everyone's business, but I don't see this incident as a direct precursor to not being able to buy a slip-on, or even a Power Commander. Actually, in a way, the EPA may not be that bad of an organization. They have been clamping down on cars for 40 or so years, and the ones that are coming out today are more powerful and more fuel efficient than ever. The EPA's counterpart in Europe that created the Euro 4 standards caused Triumph to engineer the new water-cooled twins, and those bikes - especially - the Thruxton R are pretty nice.
Between EPA and NHTSA meddling, I can't think of a new car under $70k that really interests me right now*. At least they've been mostly leaving bikes alone. I'd like it to stay that way.
As a motorcycle manufacturer, they are required to manufacture and sell bikes that comply with EPA regulations. When they install a Harley branded tuner to a customer's bike prior to, or even after, sale, it's a different magilla (sorry for the legalese) than unrelated aftermarket manufacturers supplying customers with "off road use" or "race only" accessories.
Of course, we all know that the EPA is trying to get their clean, green little fingers into everyone's business, but I don't see this incident as a direct precursor to not being able to buy a slip-on, or even a Power Commander. Actually, in a way, the EPA may not be that bad of an organization. They have been clamping down on cars for 40 or so years, and the ones that are coming out today are more powerful and more fuel efficient than ever. The EPA's counterpart in Europe that created the Euro 4 standards caused Triumph to engineer the new water-cooled twins, and those bikes - especially - the Thruxton R are pretty nice.
The Vance and Hines drag bike is a HD in name only. Assuming we are talking about the 2000cc engine, which is a custom from billet engine that shares nothing from the HD VRod model. If V & H also runs the VRod drag bike, then actually a HD.
Leave it to Harley and thier riders to completely screw up the motorcycle business. What with loud pipes, poor rider image, and legal violations, they are making it hard on the rest of the industry. This is why I own older bikes. I can pretty much do what I want to them. I still have the responsibility to be a good neighbor and a good citizen, as we all do. ...J.D.
Ah yes, best to go for the big players! Wait, whats that? Of the 261.8 MILLION registered vehicles in the United States motorcycles account for how many? 3%?!?! Well holy cow! Making strides we are!! How many, of the nearly 8 million registered motorcycles, have a screaming eagle exhaust? Christ...
They'd be better off going around and checking cars for under inflated tires, I guarantee that with approx 253 million cars and trucks on the road, under inflated tires are a greater cause for concern. More rolling resistance= less mpg=more fuel consumed=larger carbon footprint.
They're trying to make headlines. SMH
This is funny. In a sick way of course. Motorcycle sales each year in America are about $one billion. Scooters, trail bikes etc. Lawn mowers, weed eaters, trimmers using little gas burning, thus polluting motors is about $eight billion. Not very many of us own motorcycles yet all most every one owning a house with yard has a couple of those tiny polluters.
Let me admit to a lawn mower, trimmer, edger and chain saw. Every one in my subdivision has a similar garage full but I am the only one with bikes. God if that doesn't make me paranoid when the government sniffs around ways to control my motorcycles yet let's me skate with 2stroke smokers.
Oh yes, other small groups of folk are also being singled out by the EPA like barbeque users. But at eight, nine, ten billion dollars a year for lawn equipment, the hundreds of thousands of workers trimming the EPA and other government workers yards it would be extremely hard to snuff out their lively hoods. 70,000 West Virginia coal miners, drop in the bucket, couple million bike owners, no big deal.
Yes, yes that is maybe seeing something sinister when any action to save the world by attacking the likes of Hardly Abelson may make all of other brand owners cheer in private of course.
Or is this an end around move for the racecar/competition only regulations the EPA attempted earlier in the year? Are they using HD as a test to see if they can be successful taking this route?
All the EPA did there was clarify what was already illegal. Which, like it or not, includes a lot of what many of us do to our bikes. For now motorsports are way down on their list, as we simply aren't a large enough segment of pollution to spend a lot of resources on. But even stock our bikes are dirtier per mile than many cars are these days. And that's why we are better off trying to stay under the radar, rather than getting up in arms. Like the CA noise law requiring all pipes to have that compliance sticker visible, it was the loud/open pipes guys that brought that down on themselves. Let's try to avoid that.
I know my bike pollutes more because of the lack of a catalytic converter. But just how much more?? Mind you, I've done no research, I just feel like at 30-35mpg, I'm doing less harm than driving my truck at 12-15 mpg? Could my bike really pollute twice as much as my truck, while traveling twice as far on the same amount of fuel?
If I'm wrong, please don't hesitate to let me know.
Answered my own question, kind of.., http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/11/autos/hy-throttle11
Long and short of the first article is that motorcycles pollute 10x more than cars and trucks on ONE of the 3 measurable pollutants from burning fossil fuels. Oddly, carbon monoxide is not one of the 3 they take in to account. http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/11/autos/hy-throttle11
This article is about oxides of nitrogen. It's from the UK so I am unsure of how well it relates to the states. But, they determined that 40% of all the oxides of nitrogen come from vehicles. There's a graph, go look at it.
I'm still confused. I get the feeling that we're being told that motorbikes are 10 times more polluting, but only
If you look at where 40% of 1 of 3 pollutants comes from and don't bother to factor in the greenhouse gas, carbon monoxide?
I would like to see some real numbers. My scooter has a 2 ft long muffler/converter that is HUGE in diameter for a one cylinder 400cc engine. It's all stock. Even when cold it doesn't smell like my newer car from the exhaust. Yeah I know that's not scientific, but I'm throwing a partial bs flag on them saying that we all pollute more.
Anecdote is not the singular of data. And the fact that you can't smell something does not mean there are no pollutants. Right off the bat, CO2 is odorless. So is Nitrous Oxide (yes, one of the pollutants formed), N2O. Nitric Oxide, NO, has a mild, slightly sweet odor. Only Nitrogen Dioxide, NO2, has a harsh odor.
This article uses words we here in the US understand. Smog for one. Green house gasses, thankfully, we win on. I like how it incorporates the production process as well. I know it about scooters, and the small ones, but it makes sense. I never really thought about it those terms.
Even better info. I guess if bike sales go way up then the epa will be on it.
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