No More Counter-Steering - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
» Main Menu

Discussion Forums
 » Twins
 » Tiger
 » General
 » RAT

Features
 » Blogs

Motorcycle.com Links

Contribute
 » Photo

Motorcycle Forums
» Insurance
» Sponsors
» Our Partners
»ATV Reviews
»Motorcycle Games

Biker Hang-Out The Biker Cafe' at the end of the Universe. C'mon in, we talk everything about motorcycles on Earth and beyond.


Sponsored by: Motorcycle Accessory Discount Superstore

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-21-2012, 04:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: My T100
 
jd_t100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 423
No More Counter-Steering

I've had people explain it to me. I've watched the youtube videos. I've tried to practice the techniques. But its just too confusing.
From now on I'm just steering.
None of this "push this way" and "lean that way". It doesn't work. Regular steering from now on!
__________________
2007 Bonneville T100. Chrome cam covers/chain guard/headlight bracket/brake fluid cap/front mud guard. Madaz pipes. AI removed. BC ARK. Centre stand. Thruxton gel seat. British Customs clubman bars. Napoleon bar end mirrors. Dart screen.
jd_t100 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-21-2012, 04:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
D41
Senior Member
Team Owner
Main Motorcycle: Valmoto Replica
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 4,258
It works, mate...it's just VERY counter-intuitive to do at first...you more than likely actually already do it to some extent with even being aware of it.
D41 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2012, 04:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
Team Owner
Main Motorcycle: Hinckley Triumph
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_t100 View Post
I've had people explain it to me. I've watched the youtube videos. I've tried to practice the techniques. But its just too confusing.
From now on I'm just steering.
None of this "push this way" and "lean that way". It doesn't work. Regular steering from now on!
Regular steering as in steering a motor car? Most people who were brought up on bicycles as children counter-steer without even realizing it - other than those who were brought up by their mothers on tricycles!!

Counter-steering is easy. It is exactly that, pushing the bars in the opposite direction of the bend. To steer a motorcycle as one would a car means keeping the bike bolt upright and not allowing -- a practical and physical impossibility -- the gyroscopic effect of two-wheels will always seek to tuck you into each bend... Check out the following wikipedia article for confirmation of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering



If I were you I would persevere with the technique. There are lots of helps available on the 'net. Here is a good place to begin: http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/school-SectionFiveB.htm


Last edited by DeanRider; 12-21-2012 at 04:57 AM.
DeanRider is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2012, 04:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
SOTP Vintage Series
Main Motorcycle: Speed Four
 
spank86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hampshire, England
Posts: 7,149
Other Motorcycle: HMS ThunderAce
You already do it without thinking about it, a magazine tested it and the amount you conter steer is actually only a few degrees.

Don't worry about it, if you werent doing it you'd be sending your posts from your mobile while wedged in a hedge.


The only reason its helpful to undertand it is to give yourself more confidence at adjusting lean mid corner.
__________________
Ever thought this forum might be a lot less random if any of us actually read the contents of each others posts?

You don't have to be stupid to be wrong, and you don't have to be wrong to be stupid.
spank86 is online now   Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2012, 05:04 AM   #5 (permalink)
Lesser spotted moderator
Site Supporter
Team Owner
Main Motorcycle: Suzuki V-Strom 650
 
saphena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alton, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 5,312
Other Motorcycle: 2006 Bonneville Black
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_t100 View Post
None of this "push this way" and "lean that way". It doesn't work. Regular steering from now on!
Like it or not you are already using counter-steering (unless you've never made a turn faster than about 10mph) it's the only way a bike weighing more than about 10lbs can be made to turn.

People learn things in different ways and it may well be that no-one's found the right way for you yet but your "regular steering" is counter-steering, you just don't know you're doing it.

The advantage you gain by knowing about counter-steering is that your life becomes very much easier, especially at critical moments requiring instant sharp changes of direction. You'll find that you have excellent precise and immediate control of steering - bit like Valentino Rossi

If you have a bicycle available to you try this:

On a flat hard surface, straddle the bike - don't sit on the saddle, Make sure the frame can easily move between your legs.

With your left hand, push the left handlebar grip away from you.

Is the frame now leaning against your left leg?

Now, with the sidestand down, try the same thing with your motorbike.
__________________
Bob - Ringer, Iron Butt Mile Eater, not dead yet
Don't worry about running out fuel, carry a spare can

"Just because you're offended doesn't make you right" Ricky Gervais
saphena is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2012, 06:04 AM   #6 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
Team Owner
Main Motorcycle: 99 Legend Sprint GT
 
IrlMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cork Ireland
Posts: 5,439
I think one of the most confusing things about counter steer is that it applies only in a small angle at the beginning of a turn to get the bike over & balancing the forces. Once over, the front wheel, because of the self-stabilising 'trail' geometry, naturally assumes a (larger) steering angle the opposite way, +into+ the turn.

So the action at the bars is push a small amount opposite to begin the turn, then allow the bars to swing the other way (a larger amount, depending on turn radius) as it tracks around the curve.

This isn't often made explicit IME.
__________________

98 Tbird tank/seat, Sprint fairing, ZX7R forks+Racetech Gold Valves, 08 ZX6R shock, short sw/arm, Alcon 6-pot, Ignitech+TPS, T'bike 3-1+Beowulf can, airbox/jet mods, tubeless wheel mod, lots :) per mile, 58mpg ave(imp)
IrlMike is online now   Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2012, 06:10 AM   #7 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
SOTP Vintage Series
Main Motorcycle: Speed Four
 
spank86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hampshire, England
Posts: 7,149
Other Motorcycle: HMS ThunderAce
Its worth noting that when you counter steer on a motorbike most of the time the bars will barely move. It's not a wrench over to one side its just weighting it more so the wheel moves ever so slightly.

I wish i could find the old magazine article on it but they tried all types of tricks and methods and the ONLY thing that turned the bike was counter steering.


...found an article similar:

http://www.mistermotero.com/bodysteering.htm and
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php

also: http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Balance/BALANCE.htm

Cant believe I'm using my last minutes on the planet posting about something we'll all be dead before you can use
__________________
Ever thought this forum might be a lot less random if any of us actually read the contents of each others posts?

You don't have to be stupid to be wrong, and you don't have to be wrong to be stupid.
spank86 is online now   Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2012, 06:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
Lesser spotted moderator
Site Supporter
Team Owner
Main Motorcycle: Suzuki V-Strom 650
 
saphena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alton, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 5,312
Other Motorcycle: 2006 Bonneville Black
The reason the bike turns is because of the profile of the tyre. When the bike is leaning the circle inscribed by the inside edge is smaller than inscribed by the outer edge - try rolling a paper cup, same principle.

Counter-steering is what initiates the lean, not what causes the turn. Once the required lean is achieved the back and front wheels should be straight again. More counter-steering will increase or decrease the lean angle and hence the turning circle.
__________________
Bob - Ringer, Iron Butt Mile Eater, not dead yet
Don't worry about running out fuel, carry a spare can

"Just because you're offended doesn't make you right" Ricky Gervais
saphena is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2012, 06:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
SOTP Vintage Series
Main Motorcycle: Speed Four
 
spank86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hampshire, England
Posts: 7,149
Other Motorcycle: HMS ThunderAce
still cant find the original article, it had a bike with those non steering bars and ten ton of telemetry, they measured all the angles of turn and twist to show exactly what the bike did.

But it boiled down to exactly what you say saph.

I'm pretty sure the maximum amount of countersteer measured was about 2 degrees.
__________________
Ever thought this forum might be a lot less random if any of us actually read the contents of each others posts?

You don't have to be stupid to be wrong, and you don't have to be wrong to be stupid.
spank86 is online now   Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2012, 07:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: My T100
 
jd_t100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 423
Sorry fellas. I was having a bit of laugh. I hope I didn't offend the nice members offering their advice.
But I love the diagram.

Anyway, please continue.
__________________
2007 Bonneville T100. Chrome cam covers/chain guard/headlight bracket/brake fluid cap/front mud guard. Madaz pipes. AI removed. BC ARK. Centre stand. Thruxton gel seat. British Customs clubman bars. Napoleon bar end mirrors. Dart screen.
jd_t100 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter your valid email address, that can receive an automated confirmation message. Otherwise, you won't be able to gain full access.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Counter Steering - interesting experience F4sSprintST Sprint Forum 3 02-09-2008 04:56 AM
Counter-Steering related to oil use? Dylan Sprint Forum 41 11-04-2007 11:52 PM
Let's talk about counter-steering SEAsprintah Sprint Forum 100 10-29-2007 04:28 PM
Steering way: Degrees of steering lock ChuckofTahoe Sprint Forum 9 09-02-2007 09:35 PM
rev counter trident900man T3 Sport / Touring Forum 5 07-13-2007 03:37 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:03 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum Ninja H2 Forum Ducati Scrambler Forum

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.