Triumphrat

jd_t100 · 12-21-2012, 04:22 AM

I've had people explain it to me. I've watched the youtube videos. I've tried to practice the techniques. But its just too confusing.
From now on I'm just steering.
None of this "push this way" and "lean that way". It doesn't work. Regular steering from now on!

D41 · 12-21-2012, 04:36 AM

It works, mate...it's just VERY counter-intuitive to do at first...you more than likely actually already do it to some extent with even being aware of it.

DeanRider · 12-21-2012, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd_t100

I've had people explain it to me. I've watched the youtube videos. I've tried to practice the techniques. But its just too confusing.
From now on I'm just steering.
None of this "push this way" and "lean that way". It doesn't work. Regular steering from now on!

Regular steering as in steering a motor car? Most people who were brought up on bicycles as children counter-steer without even realizing it - other than those who were brought up by their mothers on tricycles!!

Counter-steering is easy. It is exactly that, pushing the bars in the opposite direction of the bend. To steer a motorcycle as one would a car means keeping the bike bolt upright and not allowing -- a practical and physical impossibility -- the gyroscopic effect of two-wheels will always seek to tuck you into each bend... Check out the following wikipedia article for confirmation of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

If I were you I would persevere with the technique. There are lots of helps available on the 'net. Here is a good place to begin: http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/school-SectionFiveB.htm

spank86 · 12-21-2012, 04:53 AM

You already do it without thinking about it, a magazine tested it and the amount you conter steer is actually only a few degrees.

Don't worry about it, if you werent doing it you'd be sending your posts from your mobile while wedged in a hedge.

The only reason its helpful to undertand it is to give yourself more confidence at adjusting lean mid corner.

saphena · 12-21-2012, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd_t100

None of this "push this way" and "lean that way". It doesn't work. Regular steering from now on!

Like it or not you are already using counter-steering (unless you've never made a turn faster than about 10mph) it's the only way a bike weighing more than about 10lbs can be made to turn.

People learn things in different ways and it may well be that no-one's found the right way for you yet but your "regular steering" is counter-steering, you just don't know you're doing it.

The advantage you gain by knowing about counter-steering is that your life becomes very much easier, especially at critical moments requiring instant sharp changes of direction. You'll find that you have excellent precise and immediate control of steering - bit like Valentino Rossi

If you have a bicycle available to you try this:

On a flat hard surface, straddle the bike - don't sit on the saddle, Make sure the frame can easily move between your legs.

With your left hand, push the left handlebar grip away from you.

Is the frame now leaning against your left leg?

Now, with the sidestand down, try the same thing with your motorbike.

IrlMike · 12-21-2012, 06:04 AM

I think one of the most confusing things about counter steer is that it applies only in a small angle at the beginning of a turn to get the bike over & balancing the forces. Once over, the front wheel, because of the self-stabilising 'trail' geometry, naturally assumes a (larger) steering angle the opposite way, +into+ the turn.

So the action at the bars is push a small amount opposite to begin the turn, then allow the bars to swing the other way (a larger amount, depending on turn radius) as it tracks around the curve.

This isn't often made explicit IME.

spank86 · 12-21-2012, 06:10 AM

Its worth noting that when you counter steer on a motorbike most of the time the bars will barely move. It's not a wrench over to one side its just weighting it more so the wheel moves ever so slightly.

I wish i could find the old magazine article on it but they tried all types of tricks and methods and the ONLY thing that turned the bike was counter steering.

...found an article similar:

http://www.mistermotero.com/bodysteering.htm and
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php

also: http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Balance/BALANCE.htm

Cant believe I'm using my last minutes on the planet posting about something we'll all be dead before you can use

saphena · 12-21-2012, 06:27 AM

The reason the bike turns is because of the profile of the tyre. When the bike is leaning the circle inscribed by the inside edge is smaller than inscribed by the outer edge - try rolling a paper cup, same principle.

Counter-steering is what initiates the lean, not what causes the turn. Once the required lean is achieved the back and front wheels should be straight again. More counter-steering will increase or decrease the lean angle and hence the turning circle.

spank86 · 12-21-2012, 06:31 AM

still cant find the original article, it had a bike with those non steering bars and ten ton of telemetry, they measured all the angles of turn and twist to show exactly what the bike did.

But it boiled down to exactly what you say saph.

I'm pretty sure the maximum amount of countersteer measured was about 2 degrees.

jd_t100 · 12-21-2012, 07:23 AM

Sorry fellas. I was having a bit of laugh. I hope I didn't offend the nice members offering their advice.
But I love the diagram.

Anyway, please continue.