Triumphrat

Joemomma

At this point the only thing anyone has to go on is a story as reported by a newspaper, which came from a police report, which came from a guy who seems at least a bit "off", that had a day to create a story and alter the evidence to fit.

The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that while the 2 kids MAY very well have been thieves, this guy is an executioner.

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zelatore

I need to clarify my earlier post referencing TT's first post.

I meant to agree with him; to say that his logical and well thought out argument was appreciated; and that if there were more comments like his than the reactionary 'I'll kill anybody who comes in my house' type comments, that there would be less for the anti-gun crowd to use against the pro-gun crowd.

My humor didn't quite translate via the written word.

<edit>
I still see the humor in a Californian and a Texan agreeing about gun ownership issues. Doesn't quite fit the stereotype now does it?

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HAP

I have to agree with Jonkster on this entire thread. We have no idea what really happened other than a police report

Seems we haven't the time to comment on the crimes where the little old couple are killed in their house by intruders/robbers with a gun but put GUN in the hands of a home owner and both sides come unglued. This is not a gun rights story. Two kids are dead for being in a house at the wrong time with a sick person. He could have used a baseball bat.

PopPop

Agreed, Hap. If this guy was spoiling for a fight and pissed off because of previous breakins, he may have used any other weapon. And, maybe these two kids were the perps previously, and maybe he knew it. Who the heck knows.

Other than that, I will use most any other gun death that isn't a clear and unambiuous cases of self defense, as an argument against their proliferation. I don't have any numbers at my finger tips but I will look for some info on what percentage of total gun fatalities were in fact justifiable under the castle doctrine.

Oh hell, Bill, just hit the Submit Reply button.

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Even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road. -- Stephen Hawking.

HAP

You open yourself up to the argument that if there were no guns you would have to out law knives, no knives then golf clubs and so on. If a sick person or crook or nut case of any kind wants to kill he can always just use his hands. At that point do you want to start whacking peoples hands off? Just saying, this is not a gun story but a sicko killing two kids story.

PopPop

I get your point Hap but some knives are illegal and guns are just so much more lethal than fists, clubs. A 10 year old is far less likely to kill his playmate with an unlocked baseball bat than with an unlocked gun. (tried to create a contrast here but maybe it's coming off too much like sarcasm - gimme a break, I'm Irish) I know, it's the owners responsibility to keep them out of kids hands, but licensing laws don't test peoples responsibility. And even for those who are inclined to acts of violence, it takes a lot more guts to stand in front of somebody and poke them with a knife than it does to drive by their house and shoot up the front porch.

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Even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road. -- Stephen Hawking.

BMK9251

Really? ask a Holocaust survivor. Your analogy is ridiculous. The European population was disarmed through gun control by the Nazis. Look it up. Sorry, but the truth doesn't fit the gun control narrative.

BMK9251

No not your fault...but your risk. If you are willing to take it.

PopPop

You're right Hap, this really isn't a gun issue, it's a murder issue. It would have been a very different story if this guy had just let go a single shotgun blast as the first kid was coming down the stairs.

Batting back and forth over the pro's and cons of gun ownership probably won't do much other than reinforce what we know about each others opinions. I'm actually not a rabid anti gun fanatic, but living in a city that was recently called "Murderapolis" I have no recollection of any home owners murdered in their home by random intruders. Most gun deaths in my home town are gangsters or their collateral damage (including kids), crimes of passion, accidental discharge, and hunting, in that order. Anyhow, I'll try to line up some info that makes sense, just in case we stumble across another juicy gun thread.

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Even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road. -- Stephen Hawking.

BMK9251

True, just one look at the guys photo tells the whole story.