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post #41 of 218 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 02:22 PM
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It's poor form to administer the coup-de-gras.

The individual in question made several wrong moves:

1. He continued to use deadly force after the threat had passed and the burglars were on the ground helpless; this is a big no-no even here in the savage wilds of Texas.

2. He didn't contact the authorities immediately after the fact. He has the moral responsibility to at least try to get an ambulance for the wounded; a call to 911 would have covered all the bases. He must have a few screws loose to leave two corpses in his basement for 24 hours while he got his S*** together.

3. He ran his mouth to the police. If the statements attributed to him were quoted halfway correctly; he has just confessed to Second Degree murder! In situations where one is forced to use deadly force, the police are NOT your friends; they ain't gonna hang a medal on you for smoking a low-life. You keep your mouth SHUT and let the lawyer do your talking for you.

Jackasses like this screw it up for the rest of us. While I own "enough guns to start my own religion", and I'm prepared to use them in the gravest extreme; I'll live just as long and die just as happy if I never have to drop the hammer on another human being. It ain't like the movies; killing people is serious business.

In the daylight hours, I'd try to run 'em off at gunpoint; if they give me half a chance. A violent and tumultuous entry into my home at night; that's a different story. I won't use deadly force to prevent a simple theft; I have insurance to replace the stuff they steal. It's cheaper than a lawyer and you won't see the faces of the slain in your dreams for the rest of your life. Anyone who claims that it wouldn't bother them psychologically after the fact is either lying, crazy, or really hasn't given it the proper thought. FWIW, I hope they throw the book at him. ..........James.
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post #42 of 218 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PopPop View Post
Whatever anyone thinks, you can't use deadly force against someone who is unarmed and simply in your home without your permission and against your will. The castle doctrine just doesn't apply here. When the homeowner executed the teens, he had already determined that a threat no longer existed. And, fourth degree burglary, breaking and entering, is only a misdemeanor in Minnesota and punishible by no more than 90 days in jail.
Only 90 days for B&E? Wow, that seems light.

I do agree with you that the castle doctrine was exceeded in this case.

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post #43 of 218 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 02:23 PM
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What an utterly ridiculous statement. True, maybe, but ridiculous. If every Native American had had a firearm, America would never have happened.
I'm not sure it is true, after all every soldier in the trenches had a firearm but World War One still happened.

Ever thought this forum might be a lot less random if any of us actually read the contents of each others posts?

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post #44 of 218 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Thruxton-Texas View Post
The individual in question made several wrong moves:

1. He continued to use deadly force after the threat had passed and the burglars were on the ground helpless; this is a big no-no even here in the savage wilds of Texas.

2. He didn't contact the authorities immediately after the fact. He has the moral responsibility to at least try to get an ambulance for the wounded; a call to 911 would have covered all the bases. He must have a few screws loose to leave two corpses in his basement for 24 hours while he got his S*** together.

3. He ran his mouth to the police. If the statements attributed to him were quoted halfway correctly; he has just confessed to Second Degree murder! In situations where one is forced to use deadly force, the police are NOT your friends; they ain't gonna hang a medal on you for smoking a low-life. You keep your mouth SHUT and let the lawyer do your talking for you.

Jackasses like this screw it up for the rest of us. While I own "enough guns to start my own religion", and I'm prepared to use them in the gravest extreme; I'll live just as long and die just as happy if I never have to drop the hammer on another human being. It ain't like the movies; killing people is serious business.

In the daylight hours, I'd try to run 'em off at gunpoint; if they give me half a chance. A violent and tumultuous entry into my home at night; that's a different story. I won't use deadly force to prevent a simple theft; I have insurance to replace the stuff they steal. It's cheaper than a lawyer and you won't see the faces of the slain in your dreams for the rest of your life. Anyone who claims that it wouldn't bother them psychologically after the fact is either lying, crazy, or really hasn't given it the proper thought. FWIW, I hope they throw the book at him. ..........James.
This is the sort of talk the ultra-lefties hate. Logical and rational discussion from a gun owner. No, much better you just rattle off some reactionary statement about prying your guns from your cold dead hands or about how if they enter your home it's on their head. That's much easier for the lefties here in my hippy-town state of CA to get fired up against!



(please, before anybody gets riled up, read this in the spirit it was intended)

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post #45 of 218 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 02:40 PM
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post #46 of 218 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thruxton-Texas View Post
The individual in question made several wrong moves:

1. He continued to use deadly force after the threat had passed and the burglars were on the ground helpless; this is a big no-no even here in the savage wilds of Texas.

2. He didn't contact the authorities immediately after the fact. He has the moral responsibility to at least try to get an ambulance for the wounded; a call to 911 would have covered all the bases. He must have a few screws loose to leave two corpses in his basement for 24 hours while he got his S*** together.

3. He ran his mouth to the police. If the statements attributed to him were quoted halfway correctly; he has just confessed to Second Degree murder! In situations where one is forced to use deadly force, the police are NOT your friends; they ain't gonna hang a medal on you for smoking a low-life. You keep your mouth SHUT and let the lawyer do your talking for you.

Jackasses like this screw it up for the rest of us. While I own "enough guns to start my own religion", and I'm prepared to use them in the gravest extreme; I'll live just as long and die just as happy if I never have to drop the hammer on another human being. It ain't like the movies; killing people is serious business.

In the daylight hours, I'd try to run 'em off at gunpoint; if they give me half a chance. A violent and tumultuous entry into my home at night; that's a different story. I won't use deadly force to prevent a simple theft; I have insurance to replace the stuff they steal. It's cheaper than a lawyer and you won't see the faces of the slain in your dreams for the rest of your life. Anyone who claims that it wouldn't bother them psychologically after the fact is either lying, crazy, or really hasn't given it the proper thought. FWIW, I hope they throw the book at him. ..........James.
Quite possibly the best perspective on this thread.

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post #47 of 218 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by zelatore View Post
This is the sort of talk the ultra-lefties hate. Logical and rational discussion from a gun owner. No, much better you just rattle off some reactionary statement about prying your guns from your cold dead hands or about how if they enter your home it's on their head. That's much easier for the lefties here in my hippy-town state of CA to get fired up against!



(please, before anybody gets riled up, read this in the spirit it was intended)
Zelatore, I actually like this sort of talk. I doubt that we'll ever rid ourselves of guns in my life time but TT's comments give me faith that there are people who know and understand the rules and consequences of using one. Hopefully, alot of the other ranting is just bravado.

Yes, I am as big a pain in the ass in person as I seem to be on line.
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post #48 of 218 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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You have experience with thtis sort of thing I see.

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post #49 of 218 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by PopPop View Post
Zelatore, I actually like this sort of talk. I doubt that we'll ever rid ourselves of guns in my life time but TT's comments give me faith that there are people who know and understand the rules and consequences of using one. Hopefully, alot of the other ranting is just bravado.
I intended my comment to be a joking endorsement of TT's comment. I though it was well made.

I also found it interesting that a guy from 'uber-conservative' Texas was the one making rational, logical comments about gun ownership and usage, and a guy from 'uber-liberal' California was agreeing with him.

I do count myself as more 'liberal' in many situations, however I certainly don't subscribe to the philosophy whole-hog. I happen to be a gun owner and as I said in my opening post in this thread I also happen to support the castle doctrine for the most part.

What I don't like are the knee-jerk comments that more or less come down to 'I'll kill anybody who comes in my house'. That sort of mindless statement only reinforces the opinions of those on the left who think all gun owners are crazies just looking for an excuse to shoot somebody. Hence when TT made a logical and rational post I jokingly said the anti-gun types would hate him for it.

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post #50 of 218 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by zelatore View Post
This is the sort of talk the ultra-lefties hate. Logical and rational discussion from a gun owner. No, much better you just rattle off some reactionary statement about prying your guns from your cold dead hands or about how if they enter your home it's on their head. That's much easier for the lefties here in my hippy-town state of CA to get fired up against!

(please, before anybody gets riled up, read this in the spirit it was intended)
Easy on the politics man, that sort of thing just muddles the issue. Strong statements such as those above do nothing to help the position or image of the right minded, law abiding gun owner.

Those who loudly vocalize statements like that remind me of someone who can't wait for a big grease fire in their kitchen just so they can have an excuse to use their handy, dandy dry chemical fire extinguisher to put it out. When guns are used to put out another sort of 'fire', the clean-up is more than most folks want to go through in a lifetime. It involves not only the blood and body parts (the authorities only haul off the corpse); but the possible criminal charges (with high dollar lawyer fees) and the psychological baggage as well. With all that said, even the "ultra-lefties" are subject to being robbed, raped, and/or murdered. It's Darwinism at it's best if they choose to be defenseless. .............James.
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