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Old 11-27-2012, 01:09 PM   #21 (permalink)
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If they were my kids

They would know the difference between right and wrong and would never forcibly enter someone's home.
I agree that shooting them after they were down and (presumably) unarmed was overkill and that waiting a day to call the authorities was wrong, but until I am placed in that situation with all of the attendant emotions, adrenaline and sense of panic, I couldn't say for sure exactly WHAT I'd do.
If the intruder had caused physical harm to any member of my family, I would probably empty my gun on him.
I'd like to think otherwise, but have gone "Papa Bear" overboard (only physically- never with a weapon) before in protecting them.
I pray that I am never placed in such a situation.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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It does make a case for having higher caliber weaponry. One or two shots and I'm sure our executioner would be sitting at home sipping a beer right now and I would be fine with that.
That's part of why a shotgun is the preferred weapon for home defense.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:13 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I pray that I am never placed in such a situation.
Me too clyde. Me too.
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Last edited by LoVel; 11-27-2012 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:15 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Hmmm... what would have happened had he not been armed?
At worst a 50% reduction in the death toll.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:20 PM   #25 (permalink)
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At worst a 50% reduction in the death toll.
That's one way of looking at it.

On the other side of that coin, instead of two bad actors still being out there, now there is only one.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:34 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Simple. If these kids wouldnt have entered his house they'd be alive. End of story.
The guy appears to be off his rocker by waiting a day to report it but looks like he's been robbed before and was prepared this time.
Doesnt matter if the dude is bat **** crazy. He was bat **** crazy in his own home THEY CHOSE to enter.
+1 Too bad those kids picked the wrong house this time as they had prior B&E records. That said. The guy is a lunatic. No doubt he would have killed them with a crowbar if he didn't have a gun.

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Old 11-27-2012, 01:35 PM   #27 (permalink)
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To wait a day.... well that sounds fishy to me.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:36 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Maybe he would've found out if they were armed ...

Unrestricted gun laws allow persons like this to own a gun. His action shows a lack of respect for the lifes of others, but that's something you can't validate before he buys one.

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If every Jew in the Warsaw Ghetto had a firearm, the Holocaust would have never happened. You should already know this.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:41 PM   #29 (permalink)
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This whole thing sounds hinky. There are just so many things that don't add up; clearly we're not getting the whole picture from this one article.

First, I'll say up front I tend to favor the castle doctrine and believe an individual should be allowed to use deadly force to protect themselves if they believe their life is in danger.

On to this story though. let's look at it piece by piece. The intruders were family. That makes me think twice to start with. Was there bad blood between them? Did the home owner have a specific reason to fear these two? Or did he have some sort of grudge against them? Did the kids think they were 'just visiting a relative'? Did they have a key/know where the home owner kept a key? Or did they break in?

Next, the homeowner says he shot the first person on the stairs and they fell. Then he went over and finished him off. More than likely the first shot was justifiable (again, under the limited information we have here) but I don't think any state allows you to then go over and kill the now disabled person where they lie. If I wanted to make a defense for his actions I could suppose the home owner felt trapped as he was in a basement and most likely his only way out was past the now fallen invader, and theoretically the invader may have been down but not out and if armed still capable of killing the home owner. That does seem like quite a stretch though, doesn't it.

Then after killing the first person he doesn't call the police or even check the rest of the house. He stays in the basement and sits back down in a chair. This strikes me as an odd thing to do - why did he do it? Without knowing the exact situation I could easily imagine this as a sign of mental instability. I just killed one of my relatives. Hmm...wonder who's on Conan tonight?

We also have the comment from the home owner of 'I wanted him dead'. Again, how do we take that? I wanted him dead as in - 'I never liked that kid and always wished I had a reason to kill him'? Or 'I wanted to make sure the perp was 100% incapacitated as I feared for my life'?

Then we have the girl who comes in after the first person has been killed. Why did she come in now? Was she concerned about the first guy? Did she think that because this was a relative's house they were welcome to come in and was worried about the gun shots? Was she stoned out of her mind? Who knows? Though that last part might tell us a bit about why she laughed at the home owner after being shot but not killed.

Now we have that laugh and 2nd killing shot. We're taking the home owner's word for the laugh, but I don't know what he would gain by making this up. It does make me think that not only might the home owner have been unstable, but the invader as well. You've just been shot; you've fallen down the stairs and are laying there gasping for breath and the man who shot you (your relative) is standing over you tying to shot you again but his gun jams. And you choose to laugh. Not plead with him, not cringe, not try to get away or continue your (supposed) attack. You laugh. I guess if you watch a lot of a certain type of movie that might seem cool - laughing at death - but in real life who does that?

And once again the home owner, clearly not in fear for his life, takes out a second weapon and shoots the 2nd invader (his relative remember) under the chin to ensure she's dead. The best thing I can give him here is maybe he saw it as a mercy killing if she was in such bad shape from the initial shots. Still, this simply isn't justifiable under any law I can imagine. This unquestionably pushes the home owner's actions well beyond self defense.

And lastly we have the gap in time where the home owner leaves the dead in his home and waits until the next day before calling his neighbor to ask for advice about an attorney. Again, not the actions of a typical self-defense case in any way, shape, or form. I can't really even think of a way to spin that in the home owner's favor.

So, looking at everything point by point, I suspect the home owner is going to jail for murder and rightly so. I don't think this comes down as a capitol case as I can't see any way this falls under 'premeditated' unless somehow he set the kids up by telling them to come over that night - again quite the stretch of imagination.

There are many things we don't know, but I think the deciding factor for the home owner's fate will be the fact that he killed each invader after they were no longer a threat to him.
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Last edited by zelatore; 11-27-2012 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:45 PM   #30 (permalink)
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To wait a day.... well that sounds fishy to me.
Whole thing sounds lame to me.
The court will have to sort it out.
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