Triumphrat

PopPop · 11-28-2012, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoVel

Did you go back and tell him to put it back?

If not you accepted what he did as okay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverado57

Good point.

‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ Edmund Burke

I actually did nothing. I was stupified by what I saw and by the time I sorted out what had happened, the moment had passed. Maybe if it happens again I'll be better prepared.

PopPop · 11-28-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishguy

Define "unqualified" as it applies to my post.

This summary is the way that I understand the laws that apply in my state...

"Sixteen states have adopted "Stand Your Ground" laws that allow an individual to use deadly force to protect a residence, place of business, vehicle or other property, so far Alabama, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee, South Carolina, South Dakota, Virginia and Washington have enacted statutes.

The law states that an individual in self-defense "has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force,it also forbids the arrest, detention or prosecution of the shooters covered by the law, and it prohibits civil suits against them.

There are requirements that vary from state to state before deadly force can be used a few examples are:An intruder must be making or have made an attempt to unlawfully and/or forcibly enter an occupied home, business or car.
The occupant of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to inflict bodily harm or death upon an occupant of the home.

The occupant of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to commit some other felony, such as arson or burglary. The occupant of the home must not have provoked or instigated an intrusion, or provoked or instigated an intruder to threaten or use deadly force."

The "Stand your Ground" law takes the "Castle Law" one step further, so no... If someone broke into our house, my first thoughts would be protecting my family and any thoughts of future prosecution or civil action would be the furthest from my mind.

None of that is to say that I am some gun toting nut job looking for some kind of gun fight. those on the forum that know me personally would attest to the fact that that is simply not the case. I am trained in other forms of self-defense also, and I feel strongly that my wife and my family depends on me as their primary defender. I take that responsibility seriously. It's as simple as that.

I didn't think you were a gun toting nut job looking for a gun fight. That's why your "be prepared to die" comment struck me odly. There are a lot of people who have no idea what their responsibilities are with guns. According to our city attorney, the most of the life changing consequences of gun use happen to the people who think they are doing the right thing and aren't prepared for attorney costs, time off work, possible fines or jail time, just for firing bullets over someone's head to scare them off.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend.

Kirkus51 · 11-28-2012, 01:11 PM

I have only myself to defend if somebody breaks in and I would hope my dogs would sound an alert first, they usually yap at anything that comes up to the door or even walks on the sidewalk in front (especially if they're walking a dog). No way would either one put up a fight.

In all this discussion about defending your home I haven't heard anyone picking up the phone and dialing 911, which is what I would do 1st off...especially if the dogs were yapping.

I can't think of a thing in the house that's worth more than a human life. It's only stuff. Let them have the stuff. I can get more stuff.

And I would pick up my Judge as a last resort. As a guy who sleeps commando and is fat I would hope anybody who broke in and saw that spectacle would be freaked and run like hell.

Most burglars aren't bold as brass when it comes to confronting people. My good friend was taking a pee at night and interrupted a couple of guys who just wanted to burgle them. He yelled at em to get the hell outta his house and they did right away.... yelling don't shoot as they were hightailing it out of his house.

spank86 · 11-28-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D41

I dunno, dude...The Battle Of Britain was pretty significant in numerous ways. After Dunkirk there was literally nothing holding the Germans back from invading the UK except a dithering Hitler who preferred British capitulation rather than invasion. Radar saved the Brits, and the BoB was unusual in that it was something the general public could actually watch unfolding in the skies above them.
Hitler's switch to bombing British cities came at a crucial time, and when it was all over it forced the Germans to keep hundreds of Luftwaffe planes in Western Europe that were sorely needed in Russia.....I doubt Hitler ever realised just how close he came to gaining his overall objectives.

As I said earlier, not nearly as close as British propaganda would have you believe. Less pilots shot down, far more downed pilots recovered, more planes being manufactured and a large number of fighter groups almost unused. Yes the southern England squadrons were hard pressed but it was a deliberate decision to leave them that way.

Irishguy · 11-28-2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PopPop

I didn't think you were a gun toting nut job looking for a gun fight. That's why your "be prepared to die" comment struck me odly. There are a lot of people who have no idea what their responsibilities are with guns. According to our city attorney, the most of the life changing consequences of gun use happen to the people who think they are doing the right thing and aren't prepared for attorney costs, time off work, possible fines or jail time, just for firing bullets over someone's head to scare them off.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend.

No worries... You didn't offend. That "gun toting" statement was not actually directed toward you, but more to head off future assumptions in this thread toward those of us who simply chose to exercise their rights. That's all.

Regarding the "prepared to die" comment... I can see where some people may view that statement as extremeist, but I believe that you have to be mentally prepared in the unlikely event of such an encounter. I would rather some scumbag be dead than a loved one. It's as simple as that. No weird Rambo mentality.

spank86 · 11-28-2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAP

The word smithing begins. The article (by the way, if you don't like that source there are maybe a hundred more) said craft, not write laws. Your own quote says it best. Your parliament writes or creates a parralel law to the crafted one by the Belgian masters.

I am in shock you would admit I might be correct in some things. Thanks.

You're probably correct in a lot of things.

The thing is our parliament has complete sovereignty, it can choose to pass or not pass each law and unilaterally take back any powers it delegates to Brussels. The principle of parliamentary sovereignty includes that parliaments powers cannot be restrained by its own past decisions.

steve betts · 11-28-2012, 02:34 PM

And...another gun thread goes viral on ratnet.

I accept that Americans have an affinity for firearms and the vestiges of a frontier mentality that is not going away just because foreign liberals don't approve.

I also recognize this is not a misunderstanding, whereby if one side offers more information, the other side will come around. This is a true disagreement about how citizens in a civil society maximize safety in their own homes.

I do however want to challenge one argument often put forth by the NRA that simply does not stand up to the scientific evidence - the one that basically says "If they want to kill you, they'll do it with a knife, baseball bat etc." While this is literally true some of the time, it is specious reasoning and ignores what we know about the psychology of violence. In short, there is a qualitative difference between the 2 lbs of pressure it takes to pull a trigger, and the threshold that must be crossed to bash somebody's brains out with a baseball bat or plunge a knife into their guts. This phenomena has been well studied in the arena of modern warfare where you can now annihilate hundreds of people as dispasssionately as you might click a control on a video game.

Thomas Hobbes got it right: "...in the nature of man we find three principal causes of quarrel....The first maketh men invade for gain; the second for safety; and the third, for reputation."

I empathize with Americans because I realize the vast majority of American gun owners are decent people who just want to protect their right to be safe. But I still think you're caught in a Hobbesian trap.

Joemomma · 11-28-2012, 02:41 PM

So...infowars.com ISN'T a parody site???

Anyone else curious as to why these 2 teens ( or anyone for that matter ) would choose to break into an OCCUPIED home( assuming they did actually break in )? Aren't there enough people who post on Facebook saying things like " Leaving for camp for 2 weeks, love the summer!" to prey on?

spank86 · 11-28-2012, 02:54 PM

It's difficult to tell joe, satire can be quite involved.

Best to wait till we can view it with a historical perspective.

LoVel · 11-28-2012, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joemomma

Anyone else curious as to why these 2 teens ( or anyone for that matter ) would choose to break into an OCCUPIED home( assuming they did actually break in )? Aren't there enough people who post on Facebook saying things like " Leaving for camp for 2 weeks, love the summer!" to prey on?

Yes I have wondered that. I actually went so far as to wonder if he somehow baited them into it. Still doesn't excuse their actions. If my next door neighbor left her door open I would go over and see if she was there by yelling in the door and if she was not I would close the door for her.