Bad people are out there - Page 10 - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
» Main Menu

Discussion Forums
 » Twins
 » Tiger
 » General
 » RAT

Features
 » Blogs

Motorcycle.com Links

Contribute
 » Photo

Motorcycle Forums
» Insurance
» Sponsors
» Our Partners
»ATV Reviews
»Motorcycle Games

Biker Hang-Out The Biker Cafe' at the end of the Universe. C'mon in, we talk everything about motorcycles on Earth and beyond.


Sponsored by: Motorcycle Accessory Discount Superstore

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-28-2012, 07:09 AM   #91 (permalink)
Premium Member
Site Supporter
Team Owner
Main Motorcycle: 2003 Bonnie
 
Demonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 4,898
Other Motorcycle: 2003 Speed Triple 955i
Extra Motorcycle: Monkeybike!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado57 View Post
I think the point is that "the government" established laws restricting firearms ownership and use. The end result is the same whether it was the Nazis or the Weimar government. In fact, both established strict firearms laws. Those laws left citizens helpless to defend themselves against the government or otherwise.

The Nazis took it to another level by specifically targeting Jews. "On November 11, 1938, the Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick, passed Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons. This regulation effectively deprived all Jews of the right to possess firearms or other weapons."
Everything I've read about German anti-semitic hysteria before and during the was suggests the Jews would not have been much better off if the whole population had had guns. Now, if ONLY the Jews had guns, that might have been different. But they were still a minority, and the anti-semitic sentiments in the population would not have been lessened just because they were armed...
__________________
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Last edited by Demonic; 11-28-2012 at 07:18 AM.
Demonic is offline   Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-28-2012, 07:18 AM   #92 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
Pole Position
Main Motorcycle: Bonneville SE
 
PopPop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishguy View Post
While I am a firm believer in my 2nd amendment rights and I always reserve the right to defend myself, my family and my property, The guy seems from the article to have been excessive in his use of force. Of course we may never know the true intent of the teenagers. Historically teenagers have commited some heinous crimes.

In closing, I will say this... Anyone who breaks in my house better be prepared to die, I say that unapologetically.
And I hope you're prepared for the consequences. The castle doctrine doesn't give you an unqualified right to take the life of someone who has broken into your home.


Sent from my iPhone
__________________
All people bring me joy. Some when they speak, some when they stop speaking.

PopPop is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 07:20 AM   #93 (permalink)
Senior Member
Pole Position
Main Motorcycle: 2009 Victory Vision
 
Silverado57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 3,769
Other Motorcycle: 2008 Victory Vision
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonic View Post
Everything I've read about Germany anti-semitic hysteria before and during the was suggests the Jews would not have been much better off if the whole population had had guns. Now, if ONLY the Jews had guns, that might have been different. But they were still a minority, and the anti-semitic sentiments in the population would not have been lessened just because they were armed...
We're getting off on a tangent now, but you might think twice about trying to erase a segment of the population if you know they have a way to protect themselves. Even if you're armed, you're not likely to go looking for a fight with someone else who is armed.

See Robert Heinlein: "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life".
__________________
Kevin
Luceo Non Uro
NJ USA
Silverado57 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 07:27 AM   #94 (permalink)
Senior Member
Pole Position
Main Motorcycle: 2009 Victory Vision
 
Silverado57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 3,769
Other Motorcycle: 2008 Victory Vision
Quote:
Originally Posted by PopPop View Post
And I hope you're prepared for the consequences. The castle doctrine doesn't give you an unqualified right to take the life of someone who has broken into your home.


Sent from my iPhone
I am.

I intend to meet force with force to defend myself and my family within the confines of the law and my own morals.
__________________
Kevin
Luceo Non Uro
NJ USA
Silverado57 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 07:29 AM   #95 (permalink)
Member
Grand Prix 250
Main Motorcycle: 07 Triumph Scrambler
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Orlando-Jacksonville
Posts: 44
Other Motorcycle: 07 Honda ST1300A
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoVel View Post
I think these teens picked the wrong house to break into but that doesn't give him the right to do what he did.

http://news.yahoo.com/minn-homeowner...165741172.html

A Minnesota man was charged Monday with second-degree murder in the Thanksgiving Day shooting deaths of two teenage cousins he said had broken into his home.
Byron David Smith, 64, of Little Falls, told investigators he shot 17-year-old Nicholas Brady Schaeffel and 18-year-old Haile Kifer as they came downstairs into his basement workshop.
A criminal complaint says Smith told investigators he shot Schaeffel when the teen had partially descended the stairs, then fired again into the teen's face as he lay on the floor looking at him.
"I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.
He then described sitting down again in his chair, and in a few minutes, the second teen Kifer began walking down the steps. Smith said he shot her and she also fell down the stairs. He said he tried to shoot her again, and when his Mini 14 rifle jammed, she laughed at him.
Smith told investigators that made him mad: "If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," he said, according to the complaint.
Smith said he then pulled out a .22-caliber revolver he was wearing and shot Kifer several times in the chest. He fired a final shot under her chin because she was still gasping for air a few minutes later, he said.
Smith called a neighbor the following day, Friday, to ask if the neighbor knew any good lawyers, according to the complaint. He later asked his neighbor to call the police.
Minnesota law allows a homeowner to use deadly force on an intruder if a reasonable person would fear they're in danger of harm. Smith told investigators he was afraid the intruders might have a weapon.
She laughed at him?

I think there's a helluva lot more to this story. Methamphetamine teen meets booze man. Shots fired, hilarity ensues. More shots fired. Nobody's laughing now.

And they were his cousins? Knock me over with a feather.

My best guess is that some extreme level of anger and resentment toward the two dead cousins, perhaps due to previous thefts, confrontations, and assorted dust-ups led to the last one.

Sadly, nothing surprises me.
BalancePoint is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 07:36 AM   #96 (permalink)
Senior Member
Pole Position
Main Motorcycle: 2009 Victory Vision
 
Silverado57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 3,769
Other Motorcycle: 2008 Victory Vision
Quote:
Originally Posted by BalancePoint View Post
And they were his cousins? Knock me over with a feather.
Wrong. The intruders were cousins of each other.
__________________
Kevin
Luceo Non Uro
NJ USA
Silverado57 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 07:40 AM   #97 (permalink)
Premium Member
Site Supporter
Team Owner
Main Motorcycle: 2003 Bonnie
 
Demonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 4,898
Other Motorcycle: 2003 Speed Triple 955i
Extra Motorcycle: Monkeybike!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado57 View Post
We're getting off on a tangent now, but you might think twice about trying to erase a segment of the population if you know they have a way to protect themselves. Even if you're armed, you're not likely to go looking for a fight with someone else who is armed.

See Robert Heinlein: "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life".
I don't really disagree with you, but I do think it's overly simplistic to think that with more guns in society, those Jews would have been alright. Their entire country (and vast part of Europe) turned on them, and I don't think that would have changed much if the gun control legislation hadn't happened. Again, unless every Jew got a gun for his Bar Mitzvah.

And that quote, I've seen it before, and never really agreed with it. I'd rather people were polite out of a sense of decency, not out of a fear of getting shot. Is America really that more polite than, say, Japan, just because they have more guns?
__________________
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Demonic is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 07:54 AM   #98 (permalink)
Senior Member
Pole Position
Main Motorcycle: 2009 Victory Vision
 
Silverado57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 3,769
Other Motorcycle: 2008 Victory Vision
We'll never know if they Jews would have had a chance. All we know for fact is that they had no way to defend themselves, and they died by the millions. You may draw your own conclusions based on mere speculation and opinion.

Personally, I find most people to be civil enough even if they're not waving weapons around.
In the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy here, people became even more kind towards each other, even without weapons being involved.

I think the point of the Heinlein quote is that if know your neighbor is sporting a weapon, you're probably less likely to start a fight about his dog P'ing on your petunias.
__________________
Kevin
Luceo Non Uro
NJ USA
Silverado57 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 08:01 AM   #99 (permalink)
Premium Member
Site Supporter
Team Owner
Main Motorcycle: 2003 Bonnie
 
Demonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 4,898
Other Motorcycle: 2003 Speed Triple 955i
Extra Motorcycle: Monkeybike!
Yup, and clearly we are drawing different conclusions. :-)

And if my neighbour pisses on my petunias, I should be able to tell him off, safe in the knowledge he can't shoot me. :-)

EDIT: I can't even grow mold. My petunias would have died anyway.
__________________
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Demonic is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 08:13 AM   #100 (permalink)
HAP
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
http://crimeinamerica.net/ http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...ime_rates.html

Just two of the hundreds of detailed crime statistic reviews available. Every crime in America that has been investigated has a report and finding of what weapon was used.

The far left and the anti gun folks can look at the Brady web site and the far right pro gun folks can look at the NRA web site. They all use the same statistics to get their points across just by changing the reason behind the crime.

For those who believe that the Jews were a peaceful group of lemmings in the second world war there is good reading in the stories of the Warsaw ghetto rebellion. It took some of the most fanatical SS troops Hitler had to put it down and the Germans paid a huge price. Those Jews chose to fight and die in lieu of going quietly into the night to die by gas. Oh, they had guns they took from the Germans after they killed them with kitchen knives and clubs.

Again, this thread never started out to be a GUN thread, yet both sides always seem to need an excuse to put their point across.
  Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter your valid email address, that can receive an automated confirmation message. Otherwise, you won't be able to gain full access.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
some people just don't get it do they? saltflybum Twins Talk 43 02-03-2012 09:44 PM
To think that some people.. kontrolld Biker Hang-Out 2 10-24-2011 02:35 PM
hello people lhowe The Welcome Center 4 10-05-2011 01:35 PM
Hi people tripletipple The Welcome Center 1 09-21-2010 07:14 PM
Hi People bloodyseaturtle The Welcome Center 1 08-12-2010 01:10 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:02 AM.



Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0