Triumphrat

spank86 · 11-11-2012, 04:37 AM

I prefer life without parole to the death penalty for one simple reason. This clear cut incident aside most of the time there's a level of doubt in criminal cases, the law gets things wrong from time to time. In the UK we would have probably executed the Guildford four and Birmingham six, ten innocent men could have died there alone.

I'd prefer to incarcerate the guilty for life than kill an innocent by accident. It's also worth noting that when a criminal commits suicide there's often a lot of complaints that he 'escaped punishment' death is the easy way out for lots of these people (again brevik not withstanding, he obviously feels no remorse).

BTR01 · 11-11-2012, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D41

I can't even write on here what I really think of this 'man' as I'd get immediately banned for life.

What a disgusting and repulsive individual.

D41, thanks! I have to admit, that I was having trouble with my vocabulary as well, on this one. Well stated! I'll Ditto that...and add this to bring the point home.

Billbikes · 11-11-2012, 06:27 AM

I go back and forth about whether or not I am for the death penalty. It has nothing to do with the morality if taking someone's life, or who gets to decide.
My concern is more about the judicial system and the way it gets implemented. It's a fact innocent people get convicted all the time. And there is enough doubt in my mind that race is an issue in who gets the death penalty.
For years I was proud of my home state of Texas being so quick to enforce the death penalty, now I'm not so sure...

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Billbikes · 11-11-2012, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveM

Mmmmmm hello peeps what was the OP question again?

Somewhat drifting.....................

Something about French toast?

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HAP · 11-11-2012, 08:44 AM

I have to get my communication skills to work here.

We have veered off onto death penalty, prison time, general punishment themes for common criminals and murderers.

This man in Norway is not that common criminal/murderer. Like McVeigh, here in the states, these men had political cause. Not religious, psychopathic or monetary reasons to kill. Political reasons are just as serious and real as the rest but can be looked at in a non medical way to understand why they did it.

Every country in the free world has citizens who are so opposed to their current form of government they could be mass killers at any moment the right circumstance arises. They believe they are the liberators of their fellow citizens.

To treat them as common, run of the mill loonies is as short sighted as the crime they committed.

In America, the McVeigh trial and execution drove any number of militias under ground, forced edge hangers on to drop out of same and allowed authorities to come to grips with the movement.

The Norwegian fellow is in the same boat. To treat him as just a mental loony and lock him up is the same as burying your head in the sand. Do they really believe he is the only right wing nationalist in Norway?

These killers and their movements have caused wars, pestilence and endless suffering around the world for centuries. Treat them as common crooks and their movements will strike you again and another 77 children will be killed for politics.

Okay, go back to screaming for his head on a platter.

LEE · 11-11-2012, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelatore

Lee, you might find it interesting to note that California, the flagship state of the liberals, just voted to keep it's death penalty.

Now personally, I voted to get rid of it. But not on any moral grounds, more as a practical matter. Of the 400-odd convicts we have on death row, almost none of them will ever actually get the needle. I think we've only actually executed a handful since reinstating the penalty around '79 or so (?). Most end up dieing of natural causes in prison anyway, and it is estimated we would save over $100,000,000 a year if we simply changed them all to life without parole.

Further, I really question whether anybody considering committing first degree murder thinks 'well, I would but for the death penalty...'. I doubt very much they give the consequences of their actions much thought at all.

And yes, there is the odd case where a man is found guilty only to be exonerated many years later and set free. Rare, certainly, but not unheard of.

Further, I would think a life of solitary confinement with nope hope of parole may well be worse than death. Certainly it would be for some.

The only real plus I can see would be in a DA using the threat of the death penalty to extract confession or plea bargain though again I don't know how often that sort of thing really takes place.

So while I don't have a moral objection to the death penalty, I'm not really sure it makes sense when considered purely on a logical level instead of an emotional one where revenge is a strong motive.

All that aside, that the killer in this particular case got such a light sentence is utterly incomprehensible.

As for W and any war crimes......it's best I not go down that path. That way lies banishment!

Don I did an assignment for three months in Cal. back in 98..... that is when i read the books pro and con for the death penalty. Except for a few states it does not work here ....they sit for years appealing on death row furthermore it costs a ton of money to go to trial and to house these miscreants. I dont have an answer on how tofix it. Perhaps we need to look to Texas on how to streamline and expediate it...but when someone is given a death penalty and it is commuted to life ...how the heck can we allow such an animal out after a few decades...it is like we are saying okay forgive and forget...

I am also in favor of a heinous crime statute that ensures someone never ever gets out...case in point Singeltary...he was the guy who raped and chopped off a young girls arms and dumped her in a drainage ditch. She managed to crawl out and a passing motorist got her help...she survived. California let this guy out in less then fifteen years. Paroled. Later he moves to Florida and kills a prostitute...florida made sure he would not be a repeat offender there and terminated his arse....

zyhano · 11-11-2012, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lam@ratf

Where and when did that happen? I suspect we're not thinking about the same thing at all.

you're right. I misunderstood. my apologies

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Nickwiz · 11-11-2012, 09:48 AM

Having read all this. I'd have to say I agree with those who suggested that executing people is not easy and those who call for it would likely as not be able to actually carry out the deed.

I question the comment I read to the effect that he only did what others are thinking. Murdering other people's children!!!!!!! FFS!

Personally I think the best punishment for this guy would be the one he has now but with no parole. And most of all stop discussing him, printing newspaper articles about him, even thinking about him. Lock him up, throw the key away, forget about him. Deny him the platform for his twisted idiotic views that notoriety and the media give him.

LEE · 11-11-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickwiz

Having read all this. I'd have to say I agree with those who suggested that executing people is not easy and those who call for it would likely as not be able to actually carry out the deed.

I question the comment I read to the effect that he only did what others are thinking. Murdering other people's children!!!!!!! FFS!

Personally I think the best punishment for this guy would be the one he has now but with no parole. And most of all stop discussing him, printing newspaper articles about him, even thinking about him. Lock him up, throw the key away, forget about him. Deny him the platform for his twisted idiotic views that notoriety and the media give him.

Excellent...no parole...no access to press...no ability to write or publish stories..create an abyss denying any contact period..

PopPop · 11-11-2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBALEE

Excellent...no parole...no access to press...no ability to write or publish stories..create an abyss denying any contact period..

He should be forced to read and memorize all of the "what oil is best" threads on Triumphrat.net. That would fix the SOB.