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Old 11-18-2012, 01:05 PM   #211 (permalink)
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They are not in there to be tortured. That said I would remove weights and gym equipment, along with TV and HBO. They are also not there to be comfy cozy. If they want extras then they should have to work for it...
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:46 PM   #212 (permalink)
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If you make a distinction between civil crimes and acts committed in the prosecution of a war then how about if -

1 - you are not insane and you identify yourself as a soldier in a war
2 - you get caught by the other side
3 - as a soldier you get turned over to the military to deal with
4 - if you broke the rules (for example the Geneva Convention) it's war crimes
5 - then the Hague deals with you

If you are told your people are at war and you act in the prosecution of that war (even if your government 'disavows' you) then why shouldn't you be treated s a soldier/spy and dealt with as such?

There are people that are not insane that firmly believe that they are under threat (for example white supremacists) and they declare themselves to be soldiers in that war. Race, religion whatever the reason given, if you try to justify your acts as acts of war and therefore exempt from civil justice then fine - let military justice have you.
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:07 PM   #213 (permalink)
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You have to be able to legitimately identify yourself as a soldier at war on behalf of a internationally recognised power.

You also have to fight an external enemy (soldiers attacking their own citizens would be tried in a military tribunal in the nation not by The Hague).
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:19 PM   #214 (permalink)
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You have to be able to legitimately identify yourself as a soldier at war on behalf of a internationally recognised power.

You also have to fight an external enemy (soldiers attacking their own citizens would be tried in a military tribunal in the nation not by The Hague).
Yeah, covered those points. By the way, I like your sig.

Someone else? Moving the conversation on?
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:40 PM   #215 (permalink)
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Yeah, covered those points. By the way, I like your sig.

Someone else? Moving the conversation on?
If you truly believe that then I don't get the question, that's exactly what does happen.

Only people such as white supremacists and mr brevik are NOT legitimate soldiers fighting for a legitimate power (thus not covered by the military courts of said power) and are not usually killing people of other nationalities on foreign soil and so get tried in their nations courts.

Giving people the ability to unilaterally declare themselves soldiers is just stupid, anyone facing the death penalty would do it. You seem to think that the hagues justice is much worse than civilian courts, it could even have been lighter.
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:36 PM   #216 (permalink)
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What's the point in that. His suffering achieves nothing, he suffers until he dies but when he dies it will be no different to if he either didn't suffer or wasn't allowed to live.
His "suffering" is in the context of the original post/story - that he is denied items that make his life more pleasurable, like moisturiser. His "suffering" is in the removal of his access to information and to his means of disseminating his thoughts. Brievik craves attention and legitimacy for his ideas and actions - disconnection from them causes individuals like him to suffer. Suffer in their own terms. That makes their lives unpleasant. That is part of the purpose of imprisonment. Suffering is part of the punishment. Brievik considers himself a hero and a warrior, not a plain coward and murderer of innocent people.
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:54 PM   #217 (permalink)
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I see what you mean now, I though you meant actual suffering.

In terms of isolation and not giving him luxuries I'm in complete agreement, he should have isolation and the bare minimum of supplies because anything more is a waste.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:25 PM   #218 (permalink)
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How about mandatory organ harvesting....before they are dead..
I am thinking liver, heart lungs......
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:49 PM   #219 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spank86 View Post
If you truly believe that then I don't get the question, that's exactly what does happen.

Only people such as white supremacists and mr brevik are NOT legitimate soldiers fighting for a legitimate power (thus not covered by the military courts of said power) and are not usually killing people of other nationalities on foreign soil and so get tried in their nations courts.

Giving people the ability to unilaterally declare themselves soldiers is just stupid, anyone facing the death penalty would do it. You seem to think that the hagues justice is much worse than civilian courts, it could even have been lighter.
Not what I said at all.

I said if they're soldiers give them to the military, not civil, system for prosecution. They would only go to the Hague for war crimes. Every crime committed by a soldier isn't a war crime.

Yeah, the supremacists (racial, religious, whatever) aren't part of a military but they call themselves soldiers and say they're fighting a war as justification for what they do. Fine, let the military prosecute them under the UMJ Code.

If you're gonna say you're a soldier and claim that means what you did wasn't murder then you get a trial under the UCMJ and then get a firing squad or a hanging. Done.
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Last edited by lam@ratf; 11-18-2012 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:16 PM   #220 (permalink)
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The oath of enlistment is what makes someone Subject to the UCMJ, I believe.


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