MotoGP - 2012 - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
» Main Menu

Discussion Forums
 » Twins
 » Tiger
 » General
 » RAT

Features
 » Blogs

Motorcycle.com Links

Contribute
 » Photo

Motorcycle Forums
» Insurance
» Sponsors
» Our Partners
»ATV Reviews
»Motorcycle Games

Biker Hang-Out The Biker Cafe' at the end of the Universe. C'mon in, we talk everything about motorcycles on Earth and beyond.


Sponsored by: Motorcycle Accessory Discount Superstore

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-06-2012, 09:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
Legend
Main Motorcycle: KTM Duke 690
 
Boldor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 11,172
Other Motorcycle: '95 Speedie & '82 CB750
Extra Motorcycle: RGV250 Trackie
MotoGP - 2012

I have opened this thread at the serious risk of being the only MGP fan on the site; I hope I am wrong. This early opener is really only a tester to see if I have any fellow followers out there.




Tomorrow marks two agonising months before the season's first race at Qatar. In Australia we don't get SBK's free to air and I have heard too many disappointing stories from mates who've coughed for pay-tele only to have SBK's dropped from the gig; so MGP is all I have and I plan to make the best of it. Not difficult since Mr Ed, the big toothed goose from Newcastle is gunna win the championship for a third time.



At Ducati; pressure is being felt. Stoner reckons they've painted themselves into a corner. 2007 Championship bike and best rider in the world cannot bow out without some sort of record. Additionally, Ezpeleta is squeezing the three factory teams for a more suitable outcome for 2013, or risk Dorna imposed cost-cutting techniques. Domenicali, Ducati CEO, sounds concerned, to say the least. The suggestions submitted by Honda and Yamaha are obviously going to suit each other better than Ducati; but will Honda and Yamaha be there in the long run? The dead-line for submissions is May. There there is the difficulty of deciding whether Ducati submits plans which push a high-tech approach; something Ducati claims allowed them to develop the Panigale. Or a Ezpeleta-friendly low-tech approach just because the show must go on. In a lengthly interview, Stoner predictably suggested that all the excitement Rossi and Burgo have been bleating about regarding improvements of the Ducati might just be a front.

The summary for the rules this year, for those who cannot decipher them, are;

1. 800cc - 1000cc. An attempt to make the engines less exacting; an effort to get away from the peaky performance of the 800 which relied on pricey electronics to get the power into the asphalt.

2. Revs limited, must be 4-cyl. Rev limit achieved by a max. bore of 48.515mm therefore effective limit of 14K rpm due to weight of internal components. It also provides an opportunity for smaller engines to run faster than the 1000cc jobbies by shortening the stroke. Main thing is valve springs work quite OK at 14K; development of pneumatic valve operation stops dead. Or not? It has been suggested that it may inspire $$Hondaha$$ be put into lighter internal components which could break through the 14K barrier.

3. Production based engines allowed for a second tier, the CRT class. Ezpeleta is huffing and puffing at everyone to NOT refer to the second-class as Moto1, which is effectively what it is. Like Moto2, Moto1 runs a production engine which UNlike Moto2, may be tuned, but the bike must have a prototype frame. The tuning appears to be only limited by the capacity. Aprilia seemed to have found a hole in the fence and plan to lease RSV packages to teams. Racing engine, leased, not owned by the team, which kinda presents practical difficulties on the buy out rule.

4. New bikes have fewer technical restrictions. The most obvious difference being fuel load, CRT teams are allowed another 3L, totaling 24L. With a larger engine and a smaller fuel load, the factories are going to have to rely on electronics again to minimise wheel spin - just brilliant. Looks like Nicky's prediction about less slipping and sliding is a good one.

5. 20K Euro buy out rule, to prevent factories from coming in on the cheap.

Honda has clearly stated that if things continue as they are, if 2012 becomes the thin end of the wedge, Honda will retire from the sport. It would be expected Yamaha would do the same. Ironically, Ducati who only entered GP since it became 4-stroke, may end up being the only factory team.
__________________
"By looking at the difference between perceived danger and actual danger, you can fundamentally change your reaction." Chris Hadfield.
Boldor is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-06-2012, 09:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
Grand Prix 250
Main Motorcycle: Thruxton
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 61
Other Motorcycle: Ninja250
I am also a MGP fan. I usually make the trip back to my home state to see the Indy race.
Like you I think Stoner is the favorite in 2012. I believe the bigger bikes favor his riding style. I think the Yamaha boys will be close. In my opinion Spies more so than Lorenzo.
I don't think the CRT will be competitive at all judging by the first test. They may compete with the satellite teams, but to be honest who cares.
RacerX113 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-06-2012, 09:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
World SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: 2003 Sprint ST
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,062
Other Motorcycle: 2004 Ducati 999S
Extra Motorcycle: 1974 Norton Commando S3
This was briefly a topic of discussion at my shop today. Most of the guys thought the CRT bikes were a joke, because they are about 6 seconds off the pace. I suggested they might close the gap some before Qatar. However, it will still look like two different races (i.e. classes) running simultaneously. Personally, I think Honda and Yamaha would like an excuse to quit because of the costs involved.

Of more immediate concern locally is the fact that Willow Springs cancelled its amateur racing season today due to costs. All levels of racing are becoming difficult to cost justify.
__________________
The people who talk the most generally have the smallest results. Results speak for themselves. - Matt Mladin

Coroja is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-06-2012, 10:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Posts: 931
I'll be off to Philip Island again this year, a yearly pilgrimage for me.
MickSprint06 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-06-2012, 10:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
SuperSport
Main Motorcycle: Ducati Multistrada
 
scott1050's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 1,057
Other Motorcycle: 1980 Honda CB750F
I love MotoGP read somewhere that next year they will lower rev limit and have common ECU which will help CRT get closer. I like the free for all but as with Kawi and Suzuki out they can spend themselves out of the game. If no CRT they would be down to 12 bikes so something had to be done. Every racing series is the world is cutting costs. Give CRTs a few years and more of them they will cut time off and get closer
__________________
Go out and enjoy a ride
scott1050 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-06-2012, 11:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
Legend
Main Motorcycle: KTM Duke 690
 
Boldor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 11,172
Other Motorcycle: '95 Speedie & '82 CB750
Extra Motorcycle: RGV250 Trackie
X113, I admire your optimism of Spies over You'regay, I think Lorenzo has a bit more consistency that Benny, but I wouldn't bet against Benny either. I care about the CRT's because they are going to get lapped. That means there is another dimension to MGP - backmarkers. It'd be nice to believe they are going to narrow the time gap Coroja, but it's only been widening since they pitched the BeeEm against the Honda 800, so I am not confident they will until the rules are changed - again. Nor am I convinced that Hondaha want to pull out just yet. They are a fairly arrogant duo, I think their threat to leave is just to give Ezpeleta something to think about; he knows it'd be a stinking farce without the big Jap-Duo. I am pretty confident Hondaha will pull out if Ezzy spits in their face and says "deal with it", but at the moment the Japanese and Ezzy are just sizing each other up to see who swings the biggest knob.

The ECU debate Scott, is an interesting one. Personally I am against it, but even if you are for it, the next debate is whether it is a "locked" system, or a standard system that each manufacturer is free to tune. 12 bikes in MGP is woeful, as you have suggested, but I don't see the CRT's as anything but track decoration to make it look as though the track is full of action. I don't really see that improving with time; how can you get so many manufacturers under two sets of rules pumping out competitive times? The two-tiered system will be a bloody mess until it is scrapped.

The CRT rules are trying to achieve too many things at once, some of those things are at odds with each other. The most obvious is the encouragement to develop technology, but with a budget imposed.

If you have heard me bang-on about this one before, block your ears, but the BEST solution of all, by far, would be to scrap 4-stroke motors. SBK do 4-stroke. GP did 2-stroke. Each year GP has tried to do 4-stroke they've moved further and further from an ideal formula. It nearly makes me cry that Stoney has finally found a decent ride and now GP is going to the dogs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX113 View Post
I believe the bigger bikes favor his riding style.
Stoney doesn't have a style. He develops his technique for the bike.
__________________
"By looking at the difference between perceived danger and actual danger, you can fundamentally change your reaction." Chris Hadfield.

Last edited by Boldor; 02-06-2012 at 11:59 PM.
Boldor is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-07-2012, 12:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: '05 Daytona 955i SE
 
AK955's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 681
Other Motorcycle: Ducati 996
Extra Motorcycle: '11 HD Softail, KLR650
Big time MotoGP and WorldSBK fan here.

Got into it when I became Ducatisti back in 2000.

Mark H.
AK955 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-07-2012, 12:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
SuperSport
Main Motorcycle: Ducati Multistrada
 
scott1050's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 1,057
Other Motorcycle: 1980 Honda CB750F
good feature in this months cycle world with Ezpeleta and it says running a standard ECU
__________________
Go out and enjoy a ride
scott1050 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-07-2012, 12:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: Bonneville SE
 
dwr302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,598
Extra Motorcycle: 69 Triumph TR6C
Have only followed MotoGP recently. Hope this thread goes well. I'm learning some things already.
dwr302 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-07-2012, 12:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
Legend
Main Motorcycle: KTM Duke 690
 
Boldor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 11,172
Other Motorcycle: '95 Speedie & '82 CB750
Extra Motorcycle: RGV250 Trackie
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwr302 View Post
Have only followed MotoGP recently. Hope this thread goes well. I'm learning some things already.
It might need a couple of bumps between now and Qatar, but I'll keep it alive on my own if necessary. There is going to be scragg'n aplenty - I predict. It's going to be more of a political schit fight this year than anything else, oh - and another victory for Stoney - which'll be a bit of a "so-what" come the end of the season.
__________________
"By looking at the difference between perceived danger and actual danger, you can fundamentally change your reaction." Chris Hadfield.
Boldor is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter your valid email address, that can receive an automated confirmation message. Otherwise, you won't be able to gain full access.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2012 West VA EuroRider's Rendezvous: 3-5 Aug 2012 rwoodhead Rides & Events 1 02-02-2012 10:13 PM
2012 MotoGP Stutz Biker Hang-Out 0 07-20-2011 08:59 AM
MotoGP dogtired Biker Hang-Out 12 11-15-2009 07:17 AM
New S3 at MotoGP s2kf4isabre Speed Triple Forum 5 07-25-2007 12:09 PM
MotoGP on CBS!?!? RevBuddyWinkler Biker Hang-Out 4 05-06-2007 11:45 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:18 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Forum Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum Ninja H2 Forum Ducati Scrambler Forum Kawasaki Ninja 250SL Forum

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.