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Old 08-15-2011, 03:02 AM   #121 (permalink)
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Never underestimate the power of greed. A poll discovered the average American would murder for a million dollars, with over 1-million Americans paying $500 to murder their own babies co-paid by the US Govt with a $100-million annual tax increase, not counting 10-million annual Morning After Pills (R U 4 86?).
Please tell me, that i have a wrong understanding of what you've written. You weren't just equalizing murder for money with abortions?!
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:17 AM   #122 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Silverado57 View Post
Was Ike Woodward killed rear-ending that truck?
No. It was a head-on "underride" impact. Truck was blocking both lanes of the road, covering 100% of the asphalt. He rode under the trailer, then the truck ran over his body, perhaps dragging the bike. Truck may have backed up after the crash?

I've seen some new trucks with underride protection on the sides of the trailer suitable for bikers, but as far as I know the law only requires underride protection of a single steel rear bumper on new trailers which does nothing for bikers.

Actual underride crash on the Dragon, truck was blocking 100% of both lanes in a blind curve


There has been at one other bike/truck underride fatality on the Dragon, before the Death Map was produced.

Even though the truck was completely blocking both lanes, the victim's family only may recover a verdict or settlement against the trucking company and driver if their lawyer can prove the speed limit on the Dragon is 65 mph. A TN Open Records Act Request must be filed immediately with TDOT in Strawberry Plains, for proof the mandatory Traffic Engineering Speed Audit does not exist, thus the 30 mph speed limit defaults to 65 mph as required by TN Code. Thus there is no contributory negligence by the deceased victim. Under TN law, if a victim is more than 50% at fault, there shall be no recovery of financial damages. Which is why the trucking company will try to settle very quickly for pennies on the dollar.

Rural Metro ambulance taxi service may also be legally liable, if they pulled another 4-hour "rescue". RM is so slow even Blount County deputies are loading crash victims into police cars at Deals Gap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junipero View Post
I seriously doubt that people are intentionally luring folks to the Dragon for wreck recovery dollars. Well, let's say I don't want to believe that.

In any event, doesn't the Deals Gap resort do sort of the same thing? Promoting the place as a riders Mecca?
Never underestimate the power of greed. A poll discovered the average American would murder for a million dollars, with over 1-million Americans paying $500 to murder their own babies co-paid by the US Govt with a $100-million annual tax increase, not counting 10-million annual Morning After Pills (R U 4 86?).

The Deals Gap Tourist Traps do lure people, but not necessarily to their doom. They don't get paid when tourists die, unlike the trillion-dollar meat wagon corporations.

But yeah, sometimes it does feel creepy. One biker rode off the cliff at Wheelie Hell curve, right in front of the CROT Motorcycle Resort. After a frantic 24-hour search of the Dragon and surrounding roads, they found the body the next day on the resort property.

Last edited by saphena; 08-15-2011 at 03:29 AM. Reason: superfluous gore removed
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:25 AM   #123 (permalink)
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The Death Map and Topo Map show a blind "high speed" lefthand curve (Busa Bash) before the righthand curve of the crash, which may have been a blind curve due to trees.

Track day instructors teach to never use the rear brake on asphalt, which applies to emergency stops on the street. This rider may have target fixated and failed to countersteer, which feels like the steering stem is welded solid, preventing any change of direction.

One "good" thing about Deals Gap is there's usually a photographer documenting the crash scene, and folks actually try to learn from the mistakes. The usual mission for regular crashes is to clean it up as fast as possible and forget about it.

Last edited by saphena; 08-15-2011 at 03:30 AM. Reason: Superfluous gore removed
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:49 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dealsgapdragon View Post

Track day instructors teach to never use the rear brake on asphalt, which applies to emergency stops on the street.
I will STRONGLY disagree on that,

Having gone through training by MSF, Keith Code, Kevin Schwantz, Lee Parks and others, I have NEVER had an instructor tell me that.
And as an instructor myself, it is not good advice.


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This rider may have target fixated and failed to countersteer, which feels like the steering stem is welded solid, preventing any change of direction.
This is the most common cause of motor cycle crashes.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:19 AM   #125 (permalink)
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I will STRONGLY disagree on that,

Having gone through training by MSF, Keith Code, Kevin Schwantz, Lee Parks and others, I have NEVER had an instructor tell me that.
And as an instructor myself, it is not good advice.

This is the most common cause of motor cycle crashes.
Back in the day of 2-stroke racing, there was no engine compression braking, so using the rear brake helped "back it in". Keith Code raced 250 2-strokes. Rear brake can only be used for

Now with 4 strokes, compression braking is a big problem, requiring slipper clutches or engine management (Daytona 675), or actually using the hand clutch to reduce compression braking and back it in (Lee Parks).

At the trackday school I did at Nashville Superspeedway last week, instructors for the Novice class emphasized to "never use the rear brake", unless running off the track then use only the rear brake. This is what Keith Code writes in his books. The instructor warned to only put balls of the feet on the pegs, due to ground clearance issues grabbing your foot and causing crashes, so no way to use the rear brake while leaned over (especially in right hand curves like this crash). There are no actual "straights" at NSS for "normal" braking zones, very similar to the Dragon.

This presumes the rider is using max throttle and max brake for max accelleration/decelleration for shortest laptime. For a street rider going 30 mph, obviously using only the front brake does not apply, UNLESS THERE IS AN EMERGENCY STOP ON ASPHALT. Emergency stops transfer weight forward off the rear tire, and can result in the rear wheel lifting off the ground, so the rear brake is useless (unless its on a grease spot or raining).

I don't know if there were any brake skid marks at this fatal crash scene, Usually on the Dragon, there's only 1 brake skid mark where the rider locked his rear brake killing its gyroscopic stability and running straight off off the side of the mountain.

"Trail braking" on bikes refers to use of the front brake while leaned over before corner apex. On cars trailbraking refers to the brake pedal controlling front/rear brakes before corner apex.

At NSS my Daytona 600 had severe engine compression braking in the fast lefthander coming off the banking, resulting in severe "hot tearing" of the rear tire, with no use of either brake at over 100 mph. The front brake was only used when reaching the hairpin curve. My engine tuner was supposed to set the idle speed at 3500 rpm, but it was the first time he'd used TuneECU and he didn't git er done. Other riders without slipper clutches did raise their idle speed at NSS, up to 170 mph on the banking. Raising the idle speed makes it feel like a 2-stroke entering corners, and simulates a slipper clutch for 4 strokes (recommended by Keith Code).

If I had been the one approaching this truck completely blocking both lanes of the road in that decreasing radius blind turn, hopefully I'd have looked where I wanted to go (no target fixation), used only my front brake on dry asphalt, then countersteered off the inside of the curve into the grass if I could not stop (then use only the rear brake if required). But I still have problems with target fixation and tensing my arms so I can't countersteer when spooked, so who knows what I'd really do.

Mr Ike appears to be a slow methodical safe rider on the Dragon:

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Old 08-15-2011, 04:47 AM   #126 (permalink)
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To each his own. For some of us, the twisty-ness of it makes it more fun. Something about the challenge and all that.
At least he was with friends doing what he loved.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:10 AM   #127 (permalink)
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They do make smaller trucks and smaller trailers that could access those 12 towns along the route.
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Old 08-15-2011, 07:13 AM   #128 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dealsgapdragon View Post
with over 1-million Americans paying $500 to murder their own babies co-paid by the US Govt with a $100-million annual tax increase, not counting 10-million annual Morning After Pills (R U 4 86?).
Keep your religious dogma to yourself.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:33 AM   #129 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dealsgapdragon View Post

with over 1-million Americans paying $500 to murder their own babies co-paid by the US Govt with a $100-million annual tax increase, not counting 10-million annual Morning After Pills (R U 4 86?)..
Also, please try to get the details right. Federal funds cannot pay for abortions, even under the new health care reform legislation. Also, if you consider RU-486 an abortion, I must assume you also think birth control pills are too, as they do the same thing. But they aren't.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:39 AM   #130 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dealsgapdragon View Post

No. It was a head-on "underride" impact. Truck was blocking both lanes of the road, covering 100% of the asphalt. He rode under the trailer, then the truck ran over his body, perhaps dragging the bike. Truck may have backed up after the crash?
I wasn't there, and I'm no crash scene investigator. But from the picture posted I don't see how that motorcycle was ridden over.
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Last edited by Silverado57; 12-11-2014 at 12:07 PM.
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